WordPress SEO & Site Migrations

Key Takeaways

and we are live hi everybody this is lauren baker founder of search engine journal and with me i have dr arson ravinovich 404 error are you the real dartmouth say rabbinovich properly robin vinovich that's how he pronounced it the first time right right right right right hey arson how's it going it's going great thanks for having me so arson is the um ceo founder of uh top hack break so we're happy to have you on here today dr sorry doctor of what uh um i'll tell you when we stop broadcasting it's a it's a very serious uh expertise that i'm in it's too it's too serious too serious too serious for live television right right right right it's a pleasure to have you here today arson um we're going to be talking about site migrations which is something like i think one of the first times i met you in real life outside of twitter and texting and facebook you did a oh oliver from hamburg says hi hi oliver uh hi oliver you did it oh click on the comment i see it now within streaming so right just to let everyone know this is gonna be really confusing for audio listeners when we drop this podcast on our feed in like a week or two um just to let you know if you're viewing live you can leave comments on facebook or on youtube and arson and i will see them and we'll talk about them unless they're silly then we'll talk about them more but um yeah where were we so the first time i met you in real life arson you were doing a presentation at napa summit about site migrations i really thought that was interesting because it's kind of a thing that the most issues that i see especially working with sites that have been around for a long time is that they've been migrated in the past no one knows about it there's not necessarily a breadcrumb trail no pun intended showing like what's happened why it went from html to asap asp to shopify or to wordpress or to whatever it's in what happened to old subdomains et cetera et cetera like typically i just find out that there was a migration when i look in ahrefs and look at their broken uh inbound links report whoa right you know so tell me a little bit about migrations why people well first tell me a little bit about yourself and our viewers about yourself and about top hat rank awesome yeah so uh um top at rank uh i started topic rank back in uh uh 2009. well 2009 i started the consultancy uh um 2010 is when topic rank formed were now a little bit over 10 years uh we are a an award-winning seo agency uh we are very boutique uh we had offices here in l.a uh but about a year before kovid we went fully remote so now we're a fully distributed team all over the us um very happy that we did that uh uh everybody on my team is happy that we went completely remote um yeah and we work with brands of all sizes we we're not a a niche down agency um and we work with uh with everyone from from like mom and pops to uh recipe publishers and bloggers so we do a lot of work with them uh and we also work with really big brands we have a fairly decent enterprise uh book of business um and we are a full service uh seo agency we also have uh uh two sister agencies that that we launched uh topic content and top ed social um and yeah we're we've been we've been uh doing this seo thing for some time now before we get into migrations i want to talk a little bit about running a boutique agency because i have a boutique agency as well we're virtual digital first virtual first whatever whatever you want to call it we're virtual so we don't have an office we all work from home right right and damn it i've been pinged every day in my email and my linkedin by these people that are apparently experts on scaling your agency and they're like i'm going to give you leads i'm going to help you scale your agency i don't want to scale my agency why don't you answer my emails lauren i've been sending them to you like do you want to scale your agency or do you like having boutique and what does that mean scale your agency take on a bunch of work at once and over overwhelm everybody like right so i mean we we've gone we've gone uh uh uh to a larger amount of employees and i wasn't happy with that uh but that was a while back right this was when i was uh in charge of the seo department i was the ceo i was the hr department i was like you know one button multiple seats um and it became really frustrating and and complicated and it was way too many personalities too to kind of like manage i just like it was it was it wasn't i wasn't happy you know i wasn't happy uh we were making good money but like it was just like it was you know maybe maybe if at that point i had like the right team the right leadership team in place the right operations right right the right operations in place uh things would have gone differently but kind of like i just like i'm like you know what we were making uh uh even though we were billing more at the end of the day we were making the same money with a with a big team then with a smaller team like what's the point right i'm just going to to keep it uh plus you know just like i made certain decisions the lessons learned i made certain decisions and we did some stuff on the social side instead of sticking to like you know we're good at seo uh this was like 2012 2013 uh you know i found this this process of like growing facebook pages like super fast it was this like really shady approach i'm not gonna talk about it uh but it worked it wasn't like hacking anything or anything it was just like basically going around google not google's facebook paid uh native advertising to grow your pages and just like using you know other pages to help promote your content whatever um so we built this like giant thing around it this whole system and it was working we're working with really big brands uh and i was just throwing money into it but then the algorithm facebook changes algorithm and like you know where we used to where we this was 2013 right i'm sure everybody remembers we went from like being able to like literally grow a page from zero to a hundred thousand uh uh likes that were like engaging our talk member tat talking about it score uh uh our tap used to the amount people are talking about the reach of the post was so high uh that it didn't make sense to spend money on that anyways long story short the algorithm came out and learned an important lesson about not romanticizing a platform and too many eggs in one basket and i just basically had to close down that entire department because we weren't able to produce what we were doing uh before that before the algorithm so you're focusing more so just on the seo component and then have some side businesses now right associated with the mother brand right that a little bit more manageable absolutely right so yeah so let's get back sorry go ahead so like the scaling component like i don't know i don't i don't want to scale uh i would rather i would rather uh open up another agency uh that specializes in something else and keep that boutique and kind of just go do a lateral move instead of like just like growing the seo team more and more and more yeah i would definitely say that before anyone attempts to scale make sure you have everything set up operational as well right like right you have a team of five or a team of 10 or a team of 20 right doubling doubling or tripling that overnight is not easy um so let's get into migrations um seen them they come up all the time a lot of people uh even sometimes teams don't know about them maybe they happened in the past uh but let's talk about an intentful migration you're working on a project you know it's going to migrate maybe they told you it's going to happen maybe the client told you it's going to happen next week maybe it's three months down the road but what are the most important components of preparing for a site migration right so um there's all kinds of migrations there's all kinds of migrations uh um everything from like protocol right to uh moving a host uh to updating a theme of beating your design uh moving from one cms to another and each one should be approached a little bit differently right um it's important to you know obviously like the 101s right like the redirects right you want to make sure there's redirect so you're going to be changing around how your site is structured and urls you want to make sure the redirects are in place but then there's also like like uh very important things that uh obviously need to be done and it's important to split it be like things that are important to be done before the migration and then things that can be done post-migration right and there's and and you know from from traveling around and speaking about migrations and listening to other uh our peers and then actually talk about migration some people have this approach where it's like it's not a stressful thing a lot of things that you don't catch pre-migration can be done post-migration which is true you can still fix it post-migration but if you're working with a big brand and a week of fixing post launch of new site uh where the rankings are fluctuating because google is trying to figure out hey what happened where are these pages there's new redirects there's new things in place i have to recalculate things right week or two those those those days of of low rankings can be hundreds of thousands of dollars for a brand sometimes millions of dollars right oh yeah so you want to approach each migration by getting all the stakeholders involved right like what's going to happen if we don't get a one-to-one transition post launch right away where is it going to hurt the most understanding that understanding the shifts in inventory understanding uh which categories are now going to be gone understanding uh uh are we changing the way things are laid out is super important before you do anything else right yeah at the same time these are opportunities for sites to improve right because if you're already migrating you might as well take a look at some of the issues that have been holding you back pre-migration and address them during the migration or issues that you've identified that you've escalated but have been held because of development priorities or anything like that that typically occurs when working with an enterprise client or a larger right or whatever it may be right right so it's a great it's a great chance to get all those fixes in that you've wanted to get in for a long time because if if the site is not clean pre-migration a lot of that's going to carry over to the post migration component too right absolutely absolutely and then you have you have things like you know you might have a whole bunch of weird redirects that like end in a canonical that's pointing somewhere else that you're looking at it only like in the last hop right uh when you're doing the migration that was the redirect from page to page b and now we're changing the url so we're going to redirect it again a lot of people don't know and i this is a test uh this is a test that i do for any new hire from a technical seo team i ask them there's a a to b redirect and then there's a b to c redirect that's a hop right i ask them how would you fix that right how would you fix the a to b b to c redirect and the right answer is you redirect a to c and you redirect b to c you don't need the a to b redirect anymore right right so a to b b to c is fixed by going a to c b to c so that simple trick that's in knowing that uh already helps you with cutting down on those redirect chains right incredibly effective right right right or even saying hey a lot of these redirects are not needed anymore like you're going to create some confusing or these canonicals because these canonical signals are confusing like let's get rid of them right there they're they're not needed anymore you're moving to a whole different infrastructure got you got you um and then also the fact that one thing is uh developers will are happy to use a redirect on the back end but you also have to make sure that that redirect is not necessarily identifiable on the front end right right meaning that you don't want to have links in your navigation links in your legacy blog content links you don't want google to be able to discover a redirect on your site they may discover it on other sites that point to your old content and then redirect accordingly which is fine but you never want to google to discover a redirect on the site itself right because it's going to slow down everything it's going to really affect your crawl yeah right cool now um say you have the chance to uh you have the chance to plan out a migration uh whether it's an infrastructure a cms migration say you're going from like shopify to big commerce right or like you're taking a shopify blog and their silly url structure and you're migrating that over to a wordpress maybe on a sub domain or something like that what are some some things that um it is a silly url structure right it's like slash blogs slash name of the blog right but no one's ever said hey uh maybe this site only must have one blog they don't do it or doesn't even care that's the question right so this is something that comes up a lot this is something that comes up especially in what i do right we do we do a lot of shopify migrations we migrate we migrate to shopify right we work we go magentos to shop we just we just took we just took one of our one of our biggest e-commerce clients from magento to shopify he got frustrated with magento he's like i'm that's it i'm moving to shopify right now and we had to redo everything because like you're going from like a really like deep uh a nested structure in url where it's multiple folders and multiple directories right to shopify here's your very clean and strict it's very german right at least it's like here here are your collections and here are your products you don't get to go right you don't get to go left right right right but i love it a lot of a lot of seos a lot of seos like oh my god that sucks i love it i love putting everything in their tight little spot because like i don't really care i don't care what the url looks like i really don't because i'm controlling all of that with breadcrumbs i'm controlling those relationships between pages that same that same organization that you're going to get in the url by putting those slashes those directories right forward slash blog forward slash blogs forward slash lauren is an awesome guy here's all the content about lauren being awesome right like i don't care where the url is i'm doing everything with breadcrumbs and because things are nested in the root it future proofs your site i'm giving away the secret sauce right because i can it's much easier to move around the breadcrumbs to reorganize how things are organized right which content topics are in which categories when you don't have to do redirect because everything is in the root it doesn't matter where it lives in the url if you're controlling it with the breadcrumb right so if i have a post that lives forward slash lauren is awesome because he has this webinar right but i wanted to i wanted to live inside of a lauren is awesome category right i'm not gonna have lauren.com forward slash lauren is awesome forward slash lauren is awesome because he has this webinar right i'm just going to have everything in the root and i'm going to control the rest the nesting those relationships i'm going to control with breadcrumbs right because it's much easier to reorganize to shuffle the breadcrumbs than to redirect pages on the website you can do that behind the scenes you don't have to right it doesn't change it doesn't change your landing pages for your pins right because you change the url you're losing those social share counts uh you you change that url you you have to if you're running ads you have to update all of your landing pages it's just like it's it's work right why why would i do that if i can if i can show google the relationships between pages without creating url level nesting and just do it with breadcrumbs put everything in its tight little boxes just like with shopify here all the collections here are all the collections here are all the products now on that product page i'm going to have a breadcrumb that tells google that this product is nested within this collection right same thing with the blog it just takes a very smart developer to be able to execute that kind of a structure with breadcrumbs because that doesn't happen out of the box right right cool i love it i love it so besides the ability to uh restructure and classify uh a shopify site via breadcrumbs besides my love hate relationship i have the shopify powered blogs besides planning for a migration and the 301 redirects and everything else what are some other surprises that can come up after the migration after you've changed to a new domain your raw structure a new brand or you've changed your cms or something along those lines what are some surprises that you see popping up site maps or uh four or fours yeah yeah what do you typically look for the first thing we see is the old site nested in forward slash old the entire site thank you thank you environment we saved it for you hey guys do you have access to the outside yeah of course it's in forward slash old cool let's take a look and the whole thing is indexed the whole thing has been crawled it's indexed yeah or or or okay this is my favorite with all of the uh conversion rate optimization companies out there url dash one url dash two url or earl earl dash what's the point of doing this oh we were we were uh split testing uh the usability and design thanks for telling me out of time uh we've just you know we just fed google multiple pages of duplicate content we've lost our rankings etcetera etcetera oh you did it on the old url too okay so yeah okay so right move forward go ahead so we've seen that i mean we've seen all kinds of stuff i've personally seen uh um personal files on the ftp they're just like you can just like crawl through the site and find them and just like all kinds of stuff but yeah uh a lot of things a lot of things a lot of things uh get left behind uh you see a lot of like so a lot of themes back in the day use short codes right to to to create elements uh happening a lot right right and then you're like right right you crawl through a site and where they go live when they come back post post post migration right uh uh post factum they come back and like we migrated and everything's went to poop lauren told me i couldn't i couldn't use bad words uh everything went to poop uh uh arson help us right uh uh you do a crawl through the site and then you're like well yeah i mean your your h1 is this weird like sequence of like uh uh you know bracket little squiggly bracket uh uh you know uh heading equals uh uh you know like straight line design question mark right like uh uh and it's just like it's not resolving right it's nothing's happening with it because it's a new theme there's no there's no hooks for it there's like right it's wordpress workers just like whatever i'm going to throw this into into the into the result into the rendered page right um all kinds of things uh go wrong so yeah i mean we see we see double canonicals on a page two plugins right two canonicals pointing to the right what what's no index no follow because the staging environment was no index that's my favorite we've pushed the right push from production right directly from production uh no index no follow right right i've made a quick 50 bucks here and there the first thing i get right right that's the first thing uh um yeah i mean there's a lot and you know like we we have our internal checklists um we don't publish them but uh there's really awesome resource aleda has if you google like her name elena solis and and uh she has an amazing migration uh uh checklist uh bastion uh bastian grim has a lot of resources on migrations for enterprise um both brilliant brilliant seos they look up to both of them um but yeah lots of lots of resources there to help you stay organized i mean migrations are tough they're stressful uh i had a client tell me that he was more stressed for during his migration than planning planning her daughter's uh his and her daughter's uh a wedding right um it's it's a lot of work it's stressful especially if the site is making you money uh you know changing something is is is you know it's it's it's scary well you also have to communicate as well right right it doesn't always happen either there's surprises that happen along the way because maybe this team didn't communicate with that team or something like that like getting everyone on the same page is really important because you also have things like social icons images that don't change pdfs that are hidden somewhere maybe a privacy policy or terms of services that's something that's that's it's hardcoded right all of that stuff typically comes up so again crawl beforehand crawl afterwards and be very diligent about that right right it's something that's incredibly important on that side and the the the scariest ones are the consolidations this is when you have multiple sites coming into one right because you have multiple sites that are ranking individually and then you're bringing them into one and those are the heaviest makers we do a lot of those a lot of those in with top entering but those are the most stressful those require the most amount of planning you're essentially replanting the entire information architecture for the site the site that's receiving all the sites right uh you want to make sure the redirects are in place there's individual change of addresses it's it's it's a big big project and i don't recommend anyone tackling that uh on their own without having an agency an seo agency behind them helping them with something like that because you are going to shoot yourself in the foot with something there are a lot of bad migrations out there as well like migration oh well it feels like to me for the past like six months um just uh the economy has been very merger and acquisition heavy right so i worked on multiple projects where there have been acquisitions where someone's gone and acquired their competitors or whatever and there's sometimes a sense of impatience with that like i've seen an entire site like redirected just let's take this old site this site that we bought and redirect the entire thing to our home right right right let's just do it done and then also right whoa what's going on here um so that's something to keep an eye on too like i'm sure you're probably dealing with that from time to time right right right lots of that so how do you tell like how do you typically see a traffic drop or any changes even when you do a smooth migration like you see you know the charts like you see the chart on certain tricks right like you have the blue line and then the green line or whatever and there's usually that little v or that little x or whatever right do you see much of a difference from a ranking perspective on a clean migration versus a dirty migration absolutely absolutely absolutely yeah uh you know again depends on what kind of a migration right so certain migrations get picked up really fast by google right uh something that's really complex where you're you're changing a lot when you're changing a lot of signals around right because everything is a signal right and you got to look at it that way the heading the title the internal link right you're changing a lot of signals around you moving even even like you're keeping the same you're keeping the same domain you're keeping the same cms but you're just updating your theme right you're going to a new design even that like now with the new design you might have headings in different places content might shift around right uh uh you you certainly you're going to take certain elements away right and you got to be aware of a lot of the stuff you got to be aware of of of things like uh you know is is is is my sidebar on this page contributing to this post or not right is google taking it into consideration as a part of the evaluation of the site right uh mueller said at one point they do look at links in the footer right or or they i'm sorry wrong wrong wrong wrong let me think at the back not links in the footer they do look at comments on the page right and they will try to understand uh how these comments relate uh to the main part of the page right they'll consider them in their uh evaluation of the entire page right uh you move comments around you paginate them out or you completely remove them you might change certain signals right uh so there's a lot there's a lot to to to to be to to to keep in mind and you know without giving like it depends on the typical seo answer right um certain migrations are smooth right like we caught everything in the beginning the staging went great we had a great developer a great team of engineers who we worked with uh they fixed all of the technical all the crawlability accessibility renderability indexability issues were addressed and fixed pre-migration that's the most important thing you knock that out of the way right if you can get good clean crawls and one of the best ways to tell if you've had a successful migration is to monitor how google is engaging with your site if you're if google's continuously crawling and trending up as far as like how many pages it crawls per visit right that means that you've done a really good migration if it's plateauing or dropping off something is wrong start investigating right away we always monitor search console if we have access to server locks we're constantly monitoring service server logs we want to make sure that google is really understanding what what happened here right um those kinds of migrations there is there is a quick fluctuation in rankings it's almost like reverse parabolic like kind of like a move right and typically what we see what we see is is this like uh you're dropping off two three four positions you're up like six seven eight positions and then you drop another two position so you're like net positive of two three positions right but it still does this dance right uh the distance between the the curve like how long that curve is depends on how good that migration was right did you go from a site did you we've done migration migrations where we went from a php a cms like wordpress to something to a site that was coded using javascript right uh so you have a completely different uh crawling process from google when it comes to that right we have to make sure there's server-side rendering in place and all of that so the crawls are the best way to tell google google's engagement with your site is the best way to tell how migration went but the distance between that curve all depends on how good that migration was another thing to keep in mind also is that when you migrate a domain depending upon the size of the site typically you're gonna have the main or most important pages switch fairly quickly right but a lot of those lingering pages maybe orphan pages maybe really deep pages it's gonna take a while for that domain to update within google and then also if you're constantly searching for um site call-in url you're going to get your old url whether you like it or not that's going to stay there if you're searching for the url it's going to stay well the big thing is when you see a branded query around your old brand change over to the new domain that's that's a plus right but you'll still probably see that if you change your brand and you're searching for the brand one when you're brand two now you'll probably see your title tag change back to brand one because google knows that the person is looking for that old brand right so if i'm looking for uh what's a brand what's a big brand that's recently changed um i can't think of any if i'm looking for cheetos right and cheetos is now doritos and i'm typing in cheetos i'm going to get the doritos page but it's going to have cheetos you know people rewrite the title for you right because they know that's how you associate with the brand basically that's your connection right right right right based on what the intent and the intent is derived from the syntax of the query absolutely yeah um speaking of google how effective is the change of address tool within google is it more or less effective than the change of address tool at the us post office uh i you know what i i would say that it's more effective uh uh i you know it's it's important uh look it's not it's not like uh uh it's how do i explain this it's it's an added bonus right it's it's you telling google hey we have moved right and that's there's a reason google wants you to keep that old uh domain up and have an hd access file with all the redirects on there uh for a long time i think it's like what like four months at this point it used to be like two three months now google's asking for like four plus months it's important because you're helping google you're not relying on that like uh i don't know how to spend that that passive index right that passive crawl that you know right you're telling google hey we have moved any request here now needs to go here right and that tells it's like a sitemap it's almost like like submitting a sitemap you're telling google hey here's what's happening uh change of address is super important uh we swear by it we love it uh we're so good we're so good at it uh and it's not it's not that difficult it's not that difficult to do the difficult part is getting it to really understand when you're giving it like here's the old url and here's the new url google can sometimes be tricky and giving you that green light saying like okay you're good to to submit the change of address and then also if you if if you have a migration that's not very well planned out you use a change of address tool to tell google that you're changing your domain right one but then you have signals coming from your site just like anything else in seo right a mixed signal will just cancel each other out right right so you have signals coming from your site where you're bringing in uh maybe like some images from the old domain maybe some java files from the old domain whatever it may be google's gonna see that like hey whoa you told me over here that we were changing but then i go to the site and i see all this other stuff that's still referencing the old domain i'm going to hold back on this it's kind of like if you set your your country targeting or your language targeting within gsc but you don't have your href lang set up properly which is mostly that's another thing that gets missed frequently during migration right that gets missed a lot uh i explained i explained to my to my clients uh when we when we do our like pre-launch or kickoff calls i explained to them this look the confusing signals are are very confusing for google think of google as like a like a very smart a brilliant toddler with adb right it's running around it's collecting information the brain is like a sponge right it's it's hungry for knowledge it sees a new page it comes and it collects everything right but when it's presented with a problem it gives up and runs away right if you give google confusing signals google's gonna be like well this kind of doesn't make sense i'm just gonna move on right uh um and you definitely don't want google to to uh um you don't want google to make those decisions for you right at any point yes you don't want google to and that's why i say write out your metas don't leave it up to google right you don't want google making you don't want google to decide which page on your site you have two pages that cover the same topic very similarly you don't want google to decide which page is the one that's the most important page for that query point to it right they tell google this is it you have canonical pointing to to you have a canonical pointing to a page and then you have a an overwhelming amount of internal links pointing the same page that's that's being canonical that's being canonical like somewhere else right that's a confusing signal for google right google's going to crawl through that and google is going to be confused uh well they'll also ignore the rest of your canonicals yeah yeah once yeah and that's that's you know especially for publishers this is a big deal right uh e-commerce too uh once google you rely on those canonicals and the google stop stops respecting your canonicals you're aft make sure you're pooped you're pooped no bad words on this show holding back potty words um so so also it's little things too like making sure your open graph tags are updated with the new information making sure your twitter cards are updated with the new information because when google sees those mixed signals as well like i i'm not 100 sure if it's still the same but when the canonical tag rolled out if your open graph was different than the canonical it just ignored the canonical entirely right so you really have to make sure the self-referring and for like they look at that even though it's a even though it's a protocol put together by i don't see why wouldn't it right it's there why not it's the same same reason they look at linkedin for authorship confirmation right it's it's all of that has to do it's all integrated arson i have a couple of minutes left it's been really good talking to you today about migrations and everything else i could do this all day i think we should probably do a part two i would love to we didn't get a chance to have category pages and all the interesting things yeah interesting super interesting um but uh i dropped your twitter handle in here um people can follow you on twitter and they can uh check out your blog what else are you into besides seo i hear you're quite the cyclist well yeah but before we do that can i can i can i do like a a a a promo of of our of our webinar that we do for for food bloggers it's completely free uh uh we do it once a month if you go to our blog you'll see that if you are a recipe blogger uh or any blogger this is very useful uh we do an seo for publishers webinar it's completely free we don't pitch or sell you anything we don't make money from it uh it's three experts that essentially help you understand everything around blogging on wordpress uh can you help do you help recipe bloggers tell a story about how they discovered the food or how they did yeah right i i i i always say i'm like look telling people that you've discovered this recipe and your self-discovery journey to costa rica while you were surfing doesn't help them really like your recipe right nobody wants to know that right there's definitely better ways to to beef up your content right answering questions really like digging into understanding the topic understanding primary secondary intent of the user when they come there you don't need to tell that long story a person's intent is to look at your recipe for potato soup they don't care where you where you got it right they don't want to scroll down especially on a mobile device that jump to recipe button is going to be your your saver uh but yeah i i ride bikes i i've been writing i've been riding a lot of bikes and i'm trying to get you mr lauren baker to start writing with me mister yeah yeah i'll get a bike it's been what two months now two months i've been saying you know what you want to get it it's so overwhelming i bought two bikes in the time that you've been waiting to buy your bike like is a schwinn a good bike anymore no like that's the thing too should i get a mongoose or a huffy could i get a huffy should i get one with a i think puppies and bmx's are like popular right now really like they're these giant puppies like these giant bikes now they're like 26 29 uh inch wheels on these like hockey looking bikes all the kids are writing i don't know i'm told i'm a boomer but when you say kids you mean like 20 and 30 year olds right right right well out here in california everyone rides the beach with a big right right with the big handlebars and everybody's always running riding in the wheeling position right right yeah yeah i um i'll get a bike it's not going to have a banana seat it's not going to have streamers streamers on the handlebars but we'll definitely get jerseys can we get matching jerseys we get sponsors we need someone to sponsor us search engine journal maybe i'm not going to wear uh bike shorts and like when you say jersey no like like you made one of those like really tight jerseys right right because we've got something in the back to put my bananas in and stuff like right right or you know other things you don't need to put bananas in it can't be too tight right no no no we got to be early this is like one of those those shirts that makes it look like you have like uh drawn six stacks on them right yeah yeah i get asked for them on facebook all the time right right right right yeah man uh biking biking is great everybody should be biking nice i love it um also if you'd like to keep on top of the seo news that's out there make sure you subscribe to search engine journals seo today newsletter search engine journal dot com slash subscribe again that's searchenginejournal.com subscribe don't miss out on seo news and be the last one to hear what's going on et cetera et et cetera dr arson it's been a pleasure to have you today i really appreciate it uh we should really follow up with like a migration guide or something like that on the site so i'll talk to danny about it as well maybe we can write one it's amazing how overlooked everything is on the migration side and something interesting that you bring up a lot of the time it's not it's um a lot of the time people look at migrations when they're changing a brand or a domain but sometimes migrations especially on the cms side will be rushed right right so you have to treat those equally because the damage can be equal if missed you will wind up spending the kind of like in closing you will wind up a migration if you're cheaping out before the migration and you don't want to hire somebody who knows what they're doing you will wind up spending twice the amount post fact them because you're going to spend money with somebody like me and then you're gonna spend money again with your engineers to fix the issues that were overlooked pre-migration it's always easier to catch it before love it love it words of wisdom to live by russian russian expression measure twice cut once right trust but verify trust but verify all right well it was great talking to you have a great weekend thank you i'll talk to you soon thank you very much bye thank you for joining us this week on 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