After hours case study sessions - ENEL

Key Takeaways

so good morning a good afternoon and good evening i hope everyone came away energized from the from the great session last i really enjoyed the panel discussion especially um so my name is carlos blanco i just finished my mba at side business school at the university of oxford and i'm really excited to host our session today which is with nl so nl is a global electric utility and power generator nl operates in more than 30 countries and is the largest private network operator in the world the largest player in renewables by install capacity and has the largest retail customer base worldwide so they're an important important player in the energy transition more importantly for us nl has been at the forefront at the charge to achieve the sustainable development goals and to accelerate the energy transition both of which are central to nl's current strategic plan which i'm sure ernesto will tell us more about but the focus of today is nl's commitment to creating shared value and their unique open innovability which is innovation open innovation and sustainability approach um and i'm really excited to introduce i guess um ernesto chiora who is the chief innovability officer at nl um to tell us about their story um so i'll quickly introduce ernesto and then give a brief outline of how the session will work so ernesto has a long career in innovation um before nl uh which he started at in 2014 erenesso worked with leading firms around the world as a partner at consulting firm osaka and associate and then his own firm artis at inventio ernesto is also deeply involved in academia having taught innovation management in italy and spain he is a member of the advisory board of the master and innovation strategy at car for foskari university of venice and a director of the advanced innovation management program at the ie business school in madrid and being italian of course he's also the author of three collections of poems um and a play that has been performed in a number of italian theaters um but before i pass over to ernesto i just want to give a brief overview of how the session will work ernesto will present for 20 to 30 minutes um during that time please submit any questions that you have through the q a function in zoom um we will have people working behind the scenes who will collate those questions um which will add which i will then ask um ernesto during the q a part of the session which will go for um yeah 30 to 40 minutes depending on how long the initial presentation goes uh so with that note i'll pass over to ernesto so ernesto the the web camera is all yours thank you very much carlos thanks everybody for joining this session uh my name is ernesto and thanks for your introduction and i'm here to talk about open innovability it's a new concept it's uh that summarizes innovation plus sustainability let's work let's take a look at this very fast presentation i will not use many slides and i will know but i will not try to bother you with many words and concepts but simple concepts that could be i hope useful for you innovation plus sustainability means innovability we have merged these two concepts into a new one but it's very hard for us to distinguish innovation and sustainability what is the relationship between them the real aim of the company is to survive so the real aim of the company is to be sustainable so sustainability is probably the most important function and activity in a company the finance the marketing and the other ones the hr they are tools to make the company more sustainable so the innovation is just one of the tools because if we don't change we can't survive innovation is fundamental prerequisite to change every 20 days we change the world skill of us every two hours we change the skin of our lips and every more or less 15 years we change the 99 of ourselves so i'm i'm 49 so i died and i born three times because in nature we are used to change ourselves to survive this is called apoptosis the continuous change of our self to survive but are companies able to change themselves to survive are companies able to change themselves in line in harmony with the rest of the the world in which they are and live when we change ours ourselves we get temp we we get the that we make we make it in harmony with the temperature with depression and with the atmosphere in which we operate but companies are programming their debts and rebirth in harmony with the communities with the environment with the stakeholders and with the societies and in which they operate unfortunately not always it happens it so try to find a cultural distinguish a cultural definition that we have adopted the difference between development and progress it's very important and it comes from pier paolo pasolini a writer a poet a movie director very important in the evolution of the culture of the european society he distinguished development that focuses on increasing economic indicators while progress involves improving overall social conditions and quality of life environmental conditions and the cultural contrast so we are focused on sustainable progress we are not focused on making money holy because we think that if you focus only on making money you will not make money in the future you will not be sustainable you will not survive this is our purpose the reason for which we work every day the reason that motivates us every day we want to create a brighter future for the communities and the societies where we operate empowering sustainable progress there is not um cult culture environment and and the society are not opposed to business for us they are part of how to make business if we understand that there is a big problem that there is a big uh goal that the humanity is looking at that is a big opportunity to make money there is a big opportunity to create business there is a big opportunity to address a new value chain or a potential source of business that is a potential source of a new business model able to make the humanity better i give you some real examples because i don't want to talk about theory this is how we work on the left side you see a picture with me uh a person andrea de paulo on a wheelchair his father and a friend of him he wrote to me proposing an amazing idea why don't you use the the charging station that you used to recharge electric cars to provide electricity to recharge electric wheelchairs this was an idea it came from a problem that he had every day he couldn't recharge his electric wheelchair so coming from a problem that is a social problem a problem that is common to millions of people we work with him we work with him and in the center of this in this picture you see a colleague of us working in our labs with andrea de palo and with a big association of disabled people in italy trying to understand how to make this come true how to switch from an idea to a real product on the left of this picture you see the photo that we got at the ces consumer electronic show in las vegas where we launched into the market the first worldwide device to recharge an electric wheelchair in every uh uh infrastructure to recharge electric cars thanks to anal now disabled people who use wheelchairs can recharge their electric wheelchairs in every infrastructure where people usually recharge electric cars so this is innovation yes we did in technical labs this is sustainability for us it's sustainability it's a it's a way to better include people using wheelchairs in our cities they can they can move with an extended range and thanks to us that be they can do it more comfortable in a more comfortable way be sure that they can recharge their electric wheelchairs is this sustainability or innovation this is what we call innovability with a real example better in the world creating new sources of business leveraging our assets our knowledge listening to people outside the company we must be humble and humble and humbled as we are hungry and hungry and hungry to make a lot of things come true being humble means that we must listen to people outside the company we are collecting more than 10 000 ideas from more than 100 countries getting a lot of insights and proposals and ideas that we implemented into new products new services that helped us to get economic successes but much more important a lot of improvements to the life of people and we have worked with startups we have scouted more than 7 000 startups this is being open in the last five years implementing more than 700 projects with startups from all around the world we have worked being open and humble to cooperate with them to make the world a little bit better i give you another real example fabio now bosatel is 20 years old now he has two degrees construction engineering and business management is a great person is a great manager and he has a particular feature his death as of he is officially recognized as disabled by the italian public welfare authority he came to meet a couple of years ago saying okay i had two degrees but unfortunately i cannot join a video conference fabio couldn't listen to us now because usually he recognizes the what people say watching them watching them and watching recognizing the words reading the lips but you during a video conference this is impossible so i said i'm out of the business i'm out of video conferences and in a multinational company as analysts i'm out of i am not the real chance to have a career and i'm very sad for this and i said okay i i reply to him say what can we do for you let's work together to find a solution and we work together we work with our tech people with our digital people we found a startup and thanks to this startup fabio started joining video conferences because he was able to uh receive texts of what people were saying during the video conferences and he was able to understand everything reading just the texts on the on the on the mobile phone and when he is able to speak with some difficulties but he's able to speak but for other people who are not able to speak they can write a message and this message becomes a speech that could be listened by other participants so we use this technology for to better serve deaf people who are customers of us in italy in spain and in other countries so now deaf people can talk to our call center agents if they're able to speak or they can talk writing messages and receiving messages but having a natural conversation with our call center legends because our call centered agents they speak and they listen voices and it doesn't matter if the the deaf person cannot speak because he can write a message or he cannot read at least here because he can they can read a message this is a way to include fabio this is a way to include million of our customers web problems when they have to here and this is a better way to provide value and to create value for our company why i'm showing to you this picture this is because we have an international program to use drones in our infrastructures it's very important we have more than 70 people working only on this how to use drones how to use robots to monitor our infrastructures during pandemic time we were able to ma to monitor our infrastructures even if our people were in lockdown because every day hundreds of drones submarine drones land drones air drones were able to monitor and manage our infrastructures and do you know is the global head of this innovation program with more than 70 people involved to use robots and drones the global head is fabio he is the global head of robust that is the drone and robots program program that we have at global level and he is the leader he's the boss of this program uh without the technology that we have implemented before a couple of years ago to include him he couldn't be the leader and he couldn't work during the the the lockdown period now he's a manager and he's a manager with a a important career in front of him we have created a career path because we wanted to include him and the other deaf people and he is an important resource for the company an important person for foreign he said i have to thank technology for how much it has improved i would be living in a very different life if i were born a decade earlier it's true but is this innovation yes we use technology we use digital solutions to include him as this sustainability yes it's an important way to include uh people with a disability and it was an important way to create a better future for him and for the other talented people uh working for anal and it's an important way to create value for deaf people who are customers and for their families this is a way to create value this is not like so the social aims and business aims are fully aligned solving a problem you can create value a solving social problem you can create an economic value too here you can see three photos the the one on the left is our seal trying an eso skelter uh in silicon valley in a silicon valley start i took this picture and in the middle of the screen there is an employee of eno working in spain implementing a new plant uh using an exoskeletor and on the right side you see a colleague of us testing different solutions of isosceles uh to this to choose the right one for the different use cases that we have we are using this technologies to increase the safety of our people safety is part of the sustainability is very important we usually say that safety first safety first before the business in every business review before we check the safety results and after we take a look at the financial results the non-financial indexes are more important than the financial ones because they create the prerequisite of the financial ones and unfortunately for many years analysts were always looking at the financial indexes but we think and we were fully committed on improving them both it's a skill there are another real proof that innovation is aligned with the social needs i'll give you another example we are using augmented reality oh sorry a 3d printing 3d printers are very important we are reducing the stocks of in our in our warehouses because we are crea able to create a new spare part if we need that thanks to a 3d printer and moreover we are using less products so we are creating less co2 pollution co2 co2 and moreover we are extending the life of our products when they have a problem thanks to 3d printers we are able to fix the problems of many spare parts extending the life of this of them reducing co2 to produce new new one new new new spray parts and reducing our costs as you see respecting the environment is a fully aligned with cost savings so sustainability is not a cost is a powerful way to extend the life of spirit parts and of the world company electric mobility we are technical partner of formulae and of moto e that you the the the most important um sport activities in the world of cars and bikes and electric cars and electric bikes we are the technical partner why because we want to develop the most advanced technologies in the electric mobility because electric mobility is solving can solve a big problem of the humanity pollution in cities so we want to reduce emissions in the transportation industry providing the most advanced technologies in the world that's why we are not sponsors we are tech partners they have selected the best one and we are very proud because they have selected us and i give you another example very different we operate in argentina and in brazil in brazil there are favelas where a lot million of poor people live in argentina there are villas more or less the same poor people live there but in in favelas we couldn't enter even if we distribute the energy in the favelas we couldn't enter in the past because a lot of people in the favela were stealing energy uh getting direct direct connections on the using the our pools and our poles sorry and they were connecting their homes directly to our electric poles and they didn't want to allow us to enter in the favelas because they were they were scared by the fact that we could disconnect their houses with illegal connections but on the other side without having the chance to enter in the favelas we couldn't solve problems in the grids and we had to pay to pay a lot of fees to the government because they say if you didn't repay in one day five days ten days you had to pay deaths millions of euros million pounds we wanted to work with females those females in favelas in many cases have that were dead husbands they have not enough money to survive they need to be helped to make money we help them create many many hundreds of different new chances for private entrepreneurship we help them to buy products to create shirts t-shirts to create handmade projects and we help me we help them teaching them how to make business putting them in connection with big companies and helping them to find money to survive those women thousands of women involved in this entrepreneurial projects helped us to enter in favelas now we can enter in the favelas repairing the polls we have reduced the thefts of energy of more in some cases more of the 80 percent thanks to their help we helped them they helped us this is a win-win approach not using the the police entering the favelas and using the violence but helping people to survive helping people to get money helping people to create a better social and economic condition for themselves helped us to be aligned in contact conquering the hearts of the people living in favelas and reducing our costs for fines that we could get from the regulators i give you another example being line aligned with the natural we have a problem we must cut the grass of our photovoltaic plants and people who have ships have another problem they must feed their ships and unfortunately they have to pay to feed their ships because owners of fields they require for money to host ships and to feed them so we had a problem they had a problem we say hey let's transform these two problems into an opportunity we are hosting this is a real picture of a plant that we have in the united states we are hosting ships in our plants allowing them to to feed themselves and helping us to cut the grass this is a very stupid idea but amazing that i really loved it's a way to create value for us it's a way to create value for them and we are working on how to increase biodiversity in our plants how to use this field to cultivate products that must be protected by the strength of the sun so a lot of products agricultural products can be cultivated under our photovoltaic panels and you see butterflies on our on our under our affordable type panels because they love some products that we are cultivating thanks to a lot of small companies that are working with us in our fields for free they get the the the results of the cultivation and we offer to them to to to we host them in our in our plants we are using also water of our big uh hydroelectric plants to help see people to cultivate their their um their fields and what we are doing is to teach them on how to better cultivate their fields to improve the productivity of their activities this is very important if people communities where you operate love you they will respect you if you respect them and you empower them they will love and respect you and you will not be dependent on the specific politicians that now is leading and in a democracy at the opposite the politicians will ask you to support them instead of asking you to support them because the people will love you the people will grow up thanks to you and you respecting them you will survive as a company that is using the natural resources of the countries where you operate and we are using the sun we are using the wind we are using the water i give you another example we went to mit asking them is it possible to ibridise geothermal energy with photovoltaic and concentrated solar power in an effective way is it possible summarizing using to use the the energy of the sun hybridizing it with the energy of the earth and at the end of a study the study left was more or less six months mit said no they said it's impossible but we did it and we did it in united states here you see a plant in stillwater nevada where there is the top gun base if you have seen the if you have watched the movie top gun is based in stillwater in seawater there is the top gum base and this plant nothing else more or less and we have hybridized 33 megawatts of geothermal energy with two 26 of photovoltaic with 17 uh of concentrated solar power and what happened happened that one plus one plus one may not three but four so we did it increasing our efficiency thanks to the technology that we have found and the mit said it no due to three reasons the first one became a challenge an open challenge we have found the solution thanks to a starter from israel the second one became an internal challenge we have found the solution thanks to a colleague the third one was another challenge that appeared impossible how to find where to find the pump that was able to pump so hot geothermal brine celsius degrees uh in a so hot day in the stillwater and we found an entrepreneur that had this pump because it was developing it for other reasons for other purposes we involved him he became the head of the operation and maintenance of this uh plant and now is a very important manager in the anal ecosystem is the country manager of south africa he's a former nuclear engineer in the u.s army and and thanks to the ideas coming from outside we were able to make possible but mit said it was impossible is this technology is this innovation yes is there sustainability is this a way to better the world increasing the efficiency of geothermal and photovoltaic and concentrated solar energy yes it's a way to have a more sustainable war hybridizing renewable technologies to increase their efficiency and to reduce their costs uh it always seems impossible until it's done said nelson mandela and we are doing this trying to make innovation come true solving problems of the world we start from the sdgs sustainable development goals that are used by our strategy in our innovation department to create the strategic plan every year we map the sdgs and we want to find solutions that can help the world to achieve the sdjs and thanks to the sdgs that are our north pole we look at sdgs trying to understand what we can do to better the world and to create a more sustainable company in a more sustainable community community where we operate for a more sustainable world i end this very fast speech and i'm sorry i hope that you liked it and i didn't bother you uh saying that in 2009 our actual ceo francesco steracha became the ceo of a small startup called annual green power the small startup had to manage all the renewables and to make money with renewables and everybody was saying to him this is a way to assign you an impossible task because making money with renewables in 2009 looked impossible and he built up their startup as a startup hiring young people involving young people assigning to them important roles and betting and betting and betting on innovation that could reduce that could lower the cost of renewables what happened after five years ellen green power was the global leader the largest renewable player in the world and francesco steracha became the global ceo of the wallanel group so the startup the former small startup conquered the world make giants more than 80 billion of revenues in the last year and francesco strashe was the former ceo of the starter he became the ceo of the company the former cfo became the co4 of the company and many former the former legal uh general counselor of the startup became the general counsel of the company and i could continue many former managers of the startup took the lead of the big giant i was a former startupper syria startupper and francesco's she asked me to join innovation and sustainability i was very proud i was very happy but now i'm definitely more proud and more happy and happier for what we have done making possible what a lot of people called impossible and in 2014 according to our attitude to sustana to be sustainable we cancelled all the investments on new fossil fuels as with which the six billion that we have found in the old strategy plan with which all of them are renewables and after we increased the number of the amount of investments on renewables and on electric rates because we wanted to be the leader of the energy transition not to suffer for this change but to lead this change people who want to avoid to suffer for the change they must lead this change and it's possible even if other people for other people it seems impossible and after that you have done it people say what you're done it's clear that you had to invest on force on renewables but if you look at the market cap of the other big important utilities in uk in germany in france in spain in the last five years they were still continuing investing in fossil fuels and the market cap halved or more our market cap has doubled more than double in the last five years this is the concrete way proof of evidence that if you invest on the future of the world if you invest on something that is sustainable the investors give you the right trust we we uh have increased of the 300 percent of more than 300 percent the percentage of social responsible investors in our market cap and we double the market cap this is a financial these are financial indicators that demonstrate that if you take a look at non-financial indicators respecting the environment respecting the communities respecting and valorizing the society you will get the financial indicators too but if you start taking a look only at the financial indicators because in the next six months you can get money from something that is not good for the humanity unfortunately for you you are not sustainable so you will die as a company we want to continuously change ourselves to be every day more sustainable to survive as our body does changing the world the world cells that we have every second and every day we change more than one million of cells because we want to survive as you as person thanks fantastic thank you ernesto that was great that was really great um so much so much to kind of continue to ask a few questions on i will um call out to the audience if you have any questions please pop them in the q a and we can pass them on to ernesto i might start with one if that's okay i'll take on the role since i'm hosting um i really loved your uh example of the hybridized geothermal and solar plant um because it kind of really brought to life for me the idea of open innovation in terms of the different places that you're getting these ideas from um so i just wanted to understand a little bit more about what you see is like how have you done open innovation successfully like what has been what's made nl do it right compared to other examples and and what's been challenging about trying to do open innovation because it's not an easy thing to do from from the failures that we've seen in other places thanks for your important question first of all how we extract our innovation in every function in every business line in every market there is a group of people working on the innovation of this function of this business line of this market so many people not few many people working on how to innovate what they they have the everyday people managing the business are doing and they are in the business they report to me and to the global head of that business line of that function of that market so we are fully aligned and there is not the innovation on a site innovation is embedded in the business and in the everyday activity they find challenges technological challenges social challenges market challenges all needs of the customers to be satisfied so how do we operate how do we manage open innovation we collect the challenges and we transform these challenges into uh requests to startups to the ecosystem where we operate with startups to partners technological or social partners into the crowd we have a website called openinnovability.com thanks to this website we have aggregated a community of 400 000 people from more than 100 countries we have collected more than 3 000 proposals and ideas or projects of innovation projects or social projects and thanks to them we have implemented more than 100 projects and this is a way being embedded in the business collecting real challenges important for the business people transforming them into requests to the community of of uh startupers to the community of to the crowd and to the community of partners and also to our providers that are an important source of innovation for us we launched challenges to the crowd thanks to opening no ability we launched challenges to thanks to our network of innovation hubs we have innovation hubs in boston san francisco tel aviv madrid moscow santiago del chile rio de janeiro and we scout startups in uk northern europe and central europe for example in germany every year austria switzerland and we look for the best startups or the best ngos in some cases that can solve our challenges social and technological challenges this is the way so we couldn't hybridize the two technology technologies because the mit say it's impossible we started with the three reason why for the mit was impossible transforming them into public challenges into our ecosystems of startups and in in our website collecting the solutions and implementing them being humble and being open is a way to find the solutions that otherwise you couldn't find in your company yeah i like your comment about being humble because no one person has all the answers so to speak um we've got so so one of the well the theme for today's forum was around measuring uh what matters so how measurement helps organizations be more sustainable um so a questions just come through about how you measure the success of open innovation so are they are they only financial or what types of non-financial measures do you have we measure all the process so how many challenges we launch how many ideas we collect how many ideas we evaluate and in which how much time we take to evaluate them how many ideas we transform into poc proof of concepts how many i see i uh proof of concept we transform we manage with a success a success how many proofer concepts successfully ended we transform and scale up into solutions that we use for the everyday activity how many revenue incremental revenues and margins and how many costs we save and a lot of non-financial indicators what is the increase in terms of safety what is the increase in terms of uh like likability of people we what is the result in terms of loyalty of customers what is the result in terms of appreciation of the analysts so we have a lot of indicators that are not only financial indicators that thanks to these indicators we are indexes we are able to measure the wall fun innovation and sustainability fund and i want to stress that it's very important to measure because innovation people think that innovation comes from an idea and edison said innovation is one percent inspiration 99 perspiration you must work hard and hard to make things come true when i was university professor i codified the formula with another friend and colleague of mine even or tenzi it's called inno formula innovation is usual too three items to be multiplied creativity execution and appeal if you have an idea and the value of this idea is 10 and you multiply for a great execution 10 plus 10 per 10 means 100 but nobody has an interest on this idea and on the product that comes from a great idea with a great execution unfortunately 10 per 10 per zero makes zero so and the same happens when you have a great idea everybody is interested in this idea but you are not able to implement it 10 0 per 10 makes zero so we must take care about the idea we must nurture the creativity and we have a handle idea factory led by a colleague of mine alessia sterpeti expert of how to nurture people's creativity this is very important because thanks to the creativity you can find solution that you couldn't think about before but creativity is not enough you must structure your innovation to make the ideas come true and to align your ideas even before that you start with the expectations the needs of customers employees and other stakeholders and to create a real value and if you don't measure everything unfortunately you are not structured everything well measuring is very important but measuring only the financial metrics from my point of view is treating our philosophy our belief because we don't want to create financial results in the short term we want to create a way to have annal more sustainable in the long term so you need not only financial results in long term but you have to create a better way to operate for your employees who are the heart of your activity for your customers who pay for you for our for my fees my my real boss is the customer the other boss is the colleague every colleague is a boss of mine and my our shareholder is another boss and my ceo is the real leader of innovation sustainability this is the reason why we can have a sustainable and innovative company this is very important i'm i'm i'm making my my best to make things come true and to establish a codified process that could be implemented in the energy industry but also in many other industries before i was a consultant on innovation i founded a consulting company as you said before asset invention means methodology and intuition the arts in nc latin is the methodology inventory is the intuition because we must combine methodology intuition and every methodology needs figures metrics and not all the economic ones yeah great great thanks ernesto um i keep on getting struck by um how much the so so there's also comments today on on esg um and how there's been a focus in the past on the e so environmental issues but i've been struck on how much you've focused on the s today which is the social um from the examples of the work you're doing in inclusion um to your comments about having a a creative workforce that's um happy and engaged uh so just wondering how you and eno think about balancing the different types of cap the different types of i guess capital so human social environmental in how you think about your strategy and your innovation from i want to share with you a different perspective for me even if we are focused on the environmental issues very clearly you know we are the largest renewable company in the world so it's clear that we are focused on providing renewables to the world and we are focused on fighting against the climate change and against pollution but i think giving sharing with you a different perspective that environmental issues are just a small part of the social issues so if you consider social as the larger the bigger category environmental issues are impart of this social means everything the social issues are related to the environment are related to the poverty related to the education are related to the safety of people to the health of people if we look at the present situation at the diffusion of the pandemic the environmental problem looks less important than the health problems but unfortunately they are related and they are a common ruth the common root is that the mankind is not respecting our house our common house as the pope called the earth and if you don't respect the common house unfortunately you you fire a lot of foods and you create a lot of pollution you create a lot of co2 and animals escape from their original habitat they invade other areas and they bring with themselves a lot of viruses they call it is just probably the first one that we know but others will come if we don't respect the earth so i think that the social issues in a wider sense are the most important also the governance if you look at the government esg the governance if you respect the social rules and if you act correctly you have a right governance so also the governance is a sub category from my point of view as the environmental topics are a sub category of the social topics yeah great and i suppose that's that's that integrated thinking that we've been hearing about today um not thinking one's more important than the other but seeing them all as intertwined so it looks like we've got a question coming like i could quote a family philosopher eggel he he used the expression at that in ancient latin is end end opposed to the philosophy of shoring kierkegaard who used out out or or we prefer at at integrating environmental social and governance topics into a wider one uh view that we could define with the just a simple word respect yeah great nice i like that um so this this is the questions just come through from the crowd it's a bit more of a technical question so um if you can answer this please do if not we can um maybe take it back for another question but it's do you already apply the eu taxonomy within your reporting so thinking about corporate reporting and how you go about that we applied our the the gri taxonomy with esg using the gi metrics since 2014 so when the european authorities say hey you have to adopt this we were not skilled as other companies all around europe because we were used to do this but this is very important for us we don't do this because it's mandatory we do this because it's useful because we want to know what we are doing we want to do as we want to know how much energy we are producing and what are our revenues or our ebitda or our margins we want to know them it's normal now so we want to know what are the impact of the the non-financial impacts that we are producing on the communities where we operate and we have implemented i think a unique system that is able to monitor what is material for us at the level of a single plant and we aggregate at the level of single country and after we aggregate at the level of a single continent and after at the global level of energy but we start with the nuclear data that is very important because we know what is important for the single community in the single plan that we that we have in the single isolated area in the middle of mexico where we have a community of 300 people but we must know at this at global level we share all this information because we must be aligned as we share the financial information because if we don't take a look at this unfortunately you will lose money and we you will not understand why you are doing you are losing money as it happened to some big energy companies that were investing in new fossil plants and that a couple of years ago perceived that they will not end these pharaonic big projects because they are outdated they didn't understand before and now they have big problems with their sustainability in in a wider sense with their financial sustainability too and that's why i give you an example we had the permit to build up a giant uh hydroelectric plant using a air as a river this is considered secret sacred so a sake river for some indigenous people living in colombia and in chile in two different areas the same river sorry two rivers but with the same situation sacred river a permit to build up a plant and we could start working we could say to the army colombia and chilean army please protect our infrastructure it's very important for the sea for the for the government it's very important to provide the energy to chile and colombia plea please protect us we didn't we prefer to say to the government hey we want to give you back the permit we will not build up the the the big infrastructure the big plant the two big plants but please allow us to involve communities explaining to them that we are not going to use their sacred river please allow us to implement many renewable plans based on photovoltaic panels so we will help we will teach those communities we will use those communities to implement the plant to maintain the plant and to dismantle the plant after 20 years or 15 years to substitute with new land with new solar solar panels and what happened they say okay we talked to the communities we say we could implement two big hydroelectric plants using the water coming from the sacred river we but we know that could be not respectful for your beliefs so we asked the government to involve you in building up new photovoltaic plants and thanks to their help we did saving a lot of money because sending people to these areas skilled people could be very expensive but teaching people living around that area could be very cheap for us and it created a new source of revenues for those people we build up schools for them and now they have a work and they have better perspective for a better future for their children so they love us and this is another concrete example yeah that's fantastic that's um so uh that's a really good example of creating shared values so to speak so um you're you're actually a part of this conference as as someone from that movement um the creating shared value movement and over the last two days the economics and mutuality team have been presenting an ecosystem map about all the different people who are operating in this space um so i so there's time for one more question there's only a couple of minutes left of this webinar so i just wanted to get your perspective on um the value of being involved in the shared value initiative um why those movements why you think they're important and what you see kind of the future directions of those types of movements like the shared value movement that you've been a great contributor to it's very important we're involved in these in this movement for at least two reasons first of all because they were teaching us what we were doing in some cases you need someone else outside that can explain to you what you are doing that can codify to you what you are doing and you didn't know that you were doing a creative shared value that you are that you had already married a cook a approach adopted this approach they explained to us they clarified to us a lot of tools that in some cases we were not using in some other cases we were using not be aware that we were using the that kind of tools so they teach us a lot so we learned a lot talking to professor kramer professor porter and the other ones and talking to the other companies that were joining the the same movement professors managers communities were collected into this movement and for us it was a great opportunity to learn with humility and i want to underline this this concept the second reason is that we found partners if we talk about an ecosystem we must admit that we are not the leader of the ecosystem in many cases we are the followers we are just part of the ecosystem and thanks to this approach we could find the right partners in the right ways in the right areas geographical areas where we operate and we found partners in africa that who helped us to start up new activities in the countries where we didn't operate in the past such as ethiopia before we found partners for sustainability and after we started our business so it's some company think okay i act the business and when i create problems after i found partners to solve problems no within that we must avoid to create progress we must create shared value with the win-win win-win approach so before approving this is another important concept before approving every investment a tenant group we must prepare a plan to make this investment more sustainable for communities where we operate and in the budget that we discuss at the investment committee of the group in which obviously i'm involved and it's an honor for me to be involved in this very important committee that decides about all the investments of the company all the important investments of the company we must have created a sustainable plan for the single sustainable investment and we must be sure that this investment is really sustainable if the investment is not sustainable i can say no and it doesn't matter if the financial indexes are okay because i have this right with the ceo to say no if i can demonstrate that investment is not sustainable it could be not sustainable because the technology will kill this investment as it happened with the the new plan investment in new fossil fuels oh it could be that this is not viable for because the social conditions are not sustainable so if i can demonstrate it we can cancel the investment and it happened several times great great that's a great way to end i think it touches on a number of the themes that have been talked about whether it's ecosystems community engagement getting all aspects of the environmental social governance together in an integrated way so once again thank you erdenesto for your time today thank you to everyone who has joined the webinar today as well um i would like to say that we are um so the economist and mutuality team and the side business school are writing a case study about nl and some of the things we talked about today um so if you are interested in learning about more please reach out to the team um and then i'll finish there with one more thank you to ernesto so thank you and thank you everyone for joining us thank you to you and it's an honor to be studied by oxford university it's an honor for me being here and thanks to you and everybody for having listened to us ciao ciao thank you