AI Insights: Uncovering Customer Value

Key Takeaways

but in the era of AI as marketers the challenge for us is how do we get the full potential out of the technology out of the Innovation but at the same time maintain authentic human values that are important to people today I'm very excited to be joined by Lisa Adams if you don't know who Lisa is she is an AI strategist and founder of growth path Partners a consultancy that helps be marketers accelerate AI adoption she also helps businesses with applied AI workshops and fractional CMO work Lisa welcome to the show how you doing today I'm doing great Michael so excited to be here thank you for having me oh it's awesome to have you and today Lisa and I are going to explore how to use AI to develop a rock solid marketing strategy utilizing a really cool framework that she's developed but before we go there I want to hear your story how in the world did you get into AI start wherever you want to start oh my my gosh oh wow so I've been doing AI Michael for about um 10 years wow you're an early adopter then that's cool well but it's not J AI I know that in in today's environment when people say a AI it's synonymous with Gen AI so my my work started in Predictive Analytics and machine learning okay when it wasn't so much in our face right it was embedded in the things that we that that we build that we create and then obviously more more more recently over the last couple of years generative Ai and um why I leaned in on generative AI has a interesting backstory you know I I'm based in Boulder Colorado been here for about 20 years but half of my career was spent in Silicon Valley so I I was married to an airplane I I did the commute out on Mondays back on Thursdays wow worked for very large Silicon Valley companies you know brocade now part of uh broadcom uh Pure Storage juder networks now part of HP um and then also worked in in um Seattle area uh for smart sheet and uh love the work and you know I have less guilt as a mother because my uh my husband my better half is a published author and he happens to do his work from home so uh my last corporate role was with a company here in Colorado ironically right after covid when we didn't have to be meeting in person anymore um and it was with a CR CRM Erp and SAS company in the beverage alcohol supply chain okay and honestly Michael I I thought that it was going to be my last one L the business and I'm really thought that you know five more years and I I'd be done right okay but it wasn't meant to be we were acir ired and I had a successful exit but it was a little too soon for me it was like a year and a half into my tenure so I was a little bit heartbroken and I said well you know what I'm thinking about maybe I should think about serving on boards because I I am passionate about having more marketers and women and women of color on boards and but when I did my research I found out that there are only 41 marketers and Fortune 1,000 boards and less than 3% of board members regardless of size of the company have marketing experience so I was really even more brokenhearted as a result of that so I dug so deeply into why that is and there are many reasons why marketers are not on boards but one of the biggest reasons is that we are deemed as tacticians rather than strategists ah okay so people see the work that we do with ads with social media websites events campaigns emails but the work that we do in go to market strategy and ensuring product Market fit in figuring out segmentation targeting and positioning in deeply understanding markets and creating categories and creating category leadership those are relatively invisible to many people but at at the high level of business obviously right at the highest level of business right and but all that work is so important for us to be able to do real really creative and really effective campaigns in market so I had taken it on almost as a personal mission with people who believe in the same things that I do to elevate the Strategic value of marketing and it happened my exit from my last company happened to coincide with the launch of chat upt in November 2022 what miraculous time that is so cool and I looked into this and I automatically saw what other people didn't initially saw and what it was capable of like people were using it to create blogs or sum summarize long reports or helping them with email when I saw it for much more than that you know I saw it For Thought leadership using it as a thought partner um using it for analytics and research to inform you know new insights and decision making using it for automation personal ation really strategic content creation those types of things and I thought to myself this is the gift this is the gift that we've been waiting for for marketers to flip the thinking right to actually Infuse our work with AI to become more strategic because before companies didn't have the tolerance nor the patience for us to do deep Market inspection and and research and surveys and and strategy but now all that is impressed as a result of AI having all this ability to do that in a very timely manner and be able to look at a lot of data and get some really unique insights so I'm like this is it we're going to flip the script and allow ourselves to really have a seat at the table because now there's patience you know we don't need all the patients we can do this fairly quickly and we can have really informed datadriven decisions in marketing I love it so somewhere along the way in this uh discovery that you made probably very quickly in the months after cat gbt was rolled out in late 2022 you decided to do what start your own business right so kind of tell us what you're doing for businesses now yeah so um it it was almost um just luck luck and passion you know the combination of those things I am not an AI expert I tell people I not that you know but I have a passion for elevating the Strategic value of marketing I have a passion for um diversity and inclusion especially you know when we think about AI if AI is supposed to benefit all of humanity yeah we need to have diverse opinions and diverse perspectives at the table right and then the last thing that I'm passionate about is you know using business as a Force for good so these three things if you put them all together and then you infuse it with ai ai just happens to elevate them right so that's one of the key reasons why I I dug into it so deeply so what I did was you know I said well do I have it in me to go back to be a CMO again but I was like hm I think I'm going to try to find companies I'm going to be a fractional CMO and I'm going to try to find companies that believe and need the Strategic work of marketing a CEO and a board that really believes in that you know if ay you know let's just say just want some lead generation but they don't have good product Market fit I'm not the right person for that right but if a company is is so focused on ensuring that they meet the needs of the market and it is so defensible once we nail that down we demand J like no other that I'm a good fit for that kind of a company so I found those companies and you know very lucky to have found them and then I started sharing in communities slack communities on social media on LinkedIn on podcasts just like this one some of these key use cases that many marketers weren't using AI for like you know for strategic use cases to align people figuring out what market segments to go after creating defensible positioning doing competitive analysis all these things and as a result almost unintentionally built the brand and now starting to help people inspiring them with what's possible with AI Beyond creating blogs I love I love it I love it and I know that the listeners and Watchers of this are going to eat this like candy because there are so many marketers out there that are um dabbling with frankly a flashing cursor on the screen and they don't even know really what it's capable of so what do you want to say to marketers right now that are not using AI for strategy kind of what are they missing out on what's the upside if they pay attention to what we're going to talk about today well and and before we even get to the upside I just want to say that we have to be graceful and respectful of where everybody is in their AI Journey right because I happen to be passionate about something and I happen to do it for a living so I live and breathe AI almost every day right but not everybody has the same passion not everybody has the same time not everybody body has the same access to AI so I think we need to give ourselves a lot of Grace in in this AI journey and my my guidance to people is just give yourself the time give yourself just a little bit of understanding of what it is because I do believe that AI literacy and AI understanding is is so important because at the very least um when we understand AI we can make better decisions for ourselves for our family Ames for careers or business and Society rather than being influenced by others who may or may not hold the same values that we do so I want to First just grounded in that love that I don't want to judge anyone for their use or non-use of AI or wherever they are in this AI Journey right because we all have different things happening in our lives to marketers you know to the extent that we can lean in right I I actually tell people that AI is forcing us to be more strategic and more authentically human and on the strategy front we'll talk about that in a little bit because I I do feel that you know let let me give you an example if you don't have good product Market fit and we Infuse AI in our campaigns in all of our tactics right one of the key examples that I give is it's like doing an allout campaign for blowers in Florida right or selling ice to Eskimos right ice to Eskimos you know umbrellas to people on the Sahara whatever you want to call it right right because it they don't have a need you've got a product that doesn't meet a need you know uh and now you infuse it with AI so you do so much personalization so many emails so much content creation well it's just a faster path to failure right absent this really good product Market fit so AI will force us to solve for these more strategic problems otherwise like I said it's a waste of money waste of resources the other aspect of AI is I believe that it will force us to be more authentically human as marketers more than ever if we think about it people's Radars are up they're like oh that's a bot that's a deep fake oh that was created by AI I don't trust that company trust levels are going to be one of the most important things that we need to earn in the are of AI people are meant to connect like during covid we figured out how to have birthday parties by having car parades right we like having human beings so you know events will rise you know authentic human connections will rise even though you and I are having this conversation digitally we know that it's a human talking to a human our listeners are human right that will rise but in the era of AI as marketers the challenge for us is how do we get the full potential out of the technology out of the Innovation but at the same time maintain authentic human values that are important to people so it will force us to be authentically human because now our jobs just got harder we have to balance Innovation with ethics we have to balance convenience with privacy balance um personalization with transparency balance automation with the human touch like notebook LM is a an application where you could input you know a PDF or a newsletter and it outputs an AI podcast with two AI hosts well and by the way listeners of this podcast heard me actually release a special episode of this podcast within the last few weeks specifically utilizing this and it's mind-blowing and it sounds human it it sounds human right but what I you know and it's awesome for auditory Learners like me right I I like to listen to things I I tend to multitask right but if we use it for commercial purposes I'm no lawyer but let's be so transparent about hey this podcast is not a human podcast these are two AI hosts right um it is based on written content that I've created and I provided human oversight and reviewed the content of this podcast I'm delivering you a podcast in this manner to ensure more efficient delivery of information and more um uh you know and so that people with different learning styles can can take advantage of it so there we used AI but we were so transparent about our use of it so I think this whole thing around the balance of Technology and human centered ethical use of AI is going to be one of the things that is going to be critical in in in the marketer uh uh agement moving forward I love it so and I agree completely with everything you're talking about and we could definitely go down that rabbit hole but we're not going to I want to I want you to kind of um do address though hey here's why you should use AI for strategy just talk about that for a minute yeah um so I dabbled into it a little bit when I talked about the product Market fit and the snowblowers in Florida I love that analogy um and I I also tell people you know just like you can't out exercise a bad diet you can't out campaign a bad product Market fit right like it just doesn't work but assuming you have that this could help right this could help and AI can help you figure out if you have a good product Market fit AI could help you figure out if you have a defensible remote got it right let's say you've got good product Market fit but it's not defensible six months from now somebody else can replace you so when I think about how AI can help us from that perspective there's this framework that I've used for several decades I won't say how many no one will judge you trust me don't worry about it and what I love about this framework is that it has stood the test of time right it has stood the test of multiple inflection points in in the market from internet Cloud mobile social and then now ai and the framework basically has two Dimensions to it you know one dimension is around value we provide our customers and that Dimension could go from one end of the scale where we are providing the same value as our competitors the middle part of that scale is we provide incremental value over our competitors and then the top of the scale is that we provide order of magnitude of improvement of value compared of our to our competitors so ideally we want to be you know at the top of that right or at least at the middle we don't want to be at the bottom right right the the other dimension and then we could dive into Dimension um uh in detail the other dimension is around defensibility okay and defensibility basically just says you know how easy or how hard will it be for your competitors to replace you or to overcome your your competitive advantages is it easy to copy meaning their next release of the product you know you're now you know at par you know or irr irrelevant is it moderate to copy or is it super hard to copy super hard to copy meaning they would have to hire your top Engineers your top talent or they may even need to buy your company uh because it's so hard to copy what you're doing and ideally you would want to be at the top on each one of those two Dimensions I love it so basically what I hear you say is on one dimension one axis we have the value that you provide to uh consumers customers and the other one is this defensible moat um how unique is whatever you offer and how hard is it for someone to to replicate it so let's start with the first um let's talk about this value to customers and let's dig in on this a little bit and just go for it I know you've got a lot to say there yeah on value to customers this one is um I I like to Brak break down big problems into bite-sized chunks MH because otherwise it becomes more of um an emotional gut feeling about really big things right oh I think we provide a lot of value because XYZ and somebody might have very different opinions on that and the the way to do this is to Define what we mean by value okay so value might be um is it price okay is it meeting a need that is unmet today is it allowing them to scale is it allowing them to transform their business it could be a number of things and it varies by company and want to give an example like chat GPT would probably be a great example right of something that's way high at the value side of things right that's right that's right and it doesn't have to be like you know chat GPT way high the value scale because it is you know across many Industries it has many use cases you can actually have a lot of value in very specific use cases in very narrow markets right it doesn't have to be like the end all be all for it to be highly valuable you just need to think about your space okay and the the key here is figuring out what those three to five areas of value are okay and then having data that can support it and where we find data to support that I love using customer reviews or customer conversations with with sales and we have gong transcripts customer reviews from you know um G2 or capterra or Gardner peer insights because you get real insight into what those customers are saying right and those customers reviews could be like Google reviews or anything like that on the consumer side right once we have that data then we can then have ai analyze it and AI can actually say all right on a scale of one to 10 it could build heat maps for us you know buy buy Persona buy buyer based on these customer reviews here's some insights that AI is going to be able to gather for us and and illuminate for us so go ahead were you g yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah thank you for uh seeing that question was about to come out of my lips so um the tell us how we might do this so so far just so we're clear what I'm hearing you say is you need to identify like three or four areas that you believe are of Great Value to your customers then you need to go out and you need to gather as much information as possible could be Google reviews it could Amazon reviews it could be customer interviews whatever you've got right yes so let's say we've got that and now we're sitting in front of Claude or chat GPT trying to figure out what to do with it give some guidance and advice on what we would do with something like that yeah you would prompt at something like this right and it could be a qualitative response or a quantitative response from the AI you might say something like in the area of customer service look at these reviews use and identify the customers that have um made comments around customer service ah because that's when one of the things you think one of the dimensions right okay and you would say um based on their comments uh make some assumptions or infer on a scale of one to five okay where most customers are like and you would say five they're extremely happy one the sentiment is they're highly dissatisfied got it so we're doing a sentiment analysis on the comments around the category like customer service right like customer service right maybe we get a five there who knows right you know maybe the next one is uh price you know maybe we get a three there so on and so forth so you can you can now almost see an evaluation a value along multiple Dimensions based on what customers are saying and then we we get a really nice chart right but that's just customer um reviews we might have partner insights we might have um you know um uh customer conversations with sales okay lots of data that we can now then take to an executive team and and be honest with ourselves okay based on this data based on these insights where would you put us on that scale of you know we are at par with our competitors we are um providing incremental uh Improvement or an order of magnitude Improvement compared to our competitors and the way we do that you know we have a benchmark for us heck Benchmark it for our competitors too because those reviews for our competitors are out there right ah I love this do it the same way for them so we get insights from our customers we'll get insights from what others think about our competitors then we can then determine where we are on that Scale based on that data I love this because this is like a relative Scale based on for example let's say you have a competitor that you know is likely uh higher on the customer service Frontier right you could gather up that data put your data in there and ask the AI to analyze kind of its in its assessment you know where you fall on this relative scale that's now what goes through my mind especially for businesses that maybe don't have a lot of access to data how much data do we need for um for this to be effective what's your thoughts on that well obviously the more data the better right right um and you know for those who don't have the data I think we need to go get it and some times what that means is customer surveys there you go okay customer interviews um I also mentioned you know those transcripts that we have with between sales and customers transcripts between customer success and customers those are going to be critical but what we need to keep in mind is privacy and protection of sensitive data right we need to ensure that we redact all that information before feeding it into AI otherwise then we've got some issues on ethical use if that makes sense yeah totally so do you have an example of something you've done even if it's Anonymous um and kind of what the a how the AI helped like what you could do this without AI obviously right so what's the big upside to utilizing AI what can it see that you cannot see well you know I I always talk about the Justice League of humans and AI you know humans we we cannot remember things right I don't remember what I did yesterday I can't process a lot of data but AI can right however the flip is AI cannot adapt easily it doesn't have an emotional response right so together we kind of um basically overcome each other's weaknesses the main thing for me is when we have a lot of data there's no way I don't care how good you are in Excel or how great you are as a data scientist those people are not exactly cheap right like AI can really help us sift through a lot of data and uncover things that we would not have seen like cross tabs right like you could see the the um you know Dimensions that they that we might think are not related But ultimately they are right like that allows us to really get some new insights that we would never have thought of but the main thing for me is the use of AI is not even the hard part the hardest part is the data getting the data cleaning the data putting it in the right structure I did this for one of my clients and it took us two to three weeks just to get the data just to put it in the format so that we can have a conversation with AI with ch GPT teams that conversation with teams oh I don't know couple hours right the data cleansing collection curation that give us give us a couple tips on H on how to do that oh my gosh like the the tips are would vary depending on the company but I have not seen a company with clean data right right so you would lit we were looking at data from slack data from Excel data from HubSpot probably from emails too right from emails and literally putting that thing into a spreadsheet wow okay right like C cleaning it up make sure that we don't have customer information oh and by the way we had to do a translation um let's just pick a company you know different language translation is that what you mean no I I'm talking about we if we're redacting the information yeah yeah yeah okay Walmart is now at me right I see oh yeah so you need to set up some sort of identifiers that are generic is what you're saying got it generic exactly so this whole thing around genericized redacting um adding some noise so that AI doesn't really think that this is your customer base right you know I I keep telling people that AI probably thinks that I own a zoo because I always give it a context of this is a zoo uh the data that I'm giving you is based on the most popular cages in the zoo popular attractions in the zoo versus this is my market side and these are the penetration rates by segment so you kind of have to trick it that way oh I see because that yeah I see so what I'm hearing you say is that if you want to make sure that it doesn't leak into the large model you kind of have to make a metaphor if you will right and and that's really intriguing Okay so we've talked we've talked about the value side of things yeah we haven't talked about the defensibility side of things so connect the dots for us on that oh I love the defensibility side and the reason why I love it is um I I I work in B2B tech and and people are generally very enamored by technology like it's the best technology ever and you know what's ironic especially in the era of AI you know a lot of people are building on top of the existing large language models and Frontier models right they're they're building on top of open AI on top of Gemini or or meta uh meta's llama and you begin to question how defensible you know just having AI is I my belief is that it it isn't you know we need to have other things Beyond The Innovation beyond the technology um to defend ourselves you know it could be in the strength of our partner ecosystem it could be our deep insight into a vertical it could be unique customer knowledge it could be brand it could be distribution channel right something like that that AI or an a large AI company won't be able to replicate very easily because if if I think about you know there are a lot of what they call AI rappers right and these AI rappers are essentially companies that have built products around the gaps that current AI large AI models can't do today so you know but this whole this whole notion of you know this is the dumbest form of AI we'll see moving forward well what happens six months from now when we've got GPT 5 or whatever right we built something that's based on the Gap so I think one of the key things in this Dimension is just being so honest with ourself with you know look ourselves in the mirror as as companies to really see what is defensible in the market and this one is probably a little bit more less data driven because you kind of have to like have a vision for what is defensible in the market and that might vary by industry right like if you're a doughnut company you got a doughnut shop are your ingredients defensible is it is so hard to find is it the recipe is it how but your location could be defensible right your is it your location right like all those things I think it is something that we need to think about and the use of AI is probably less on the data aspect of this because it's it's a vision but when I now think about the value piece of this and then the defensibility piece of this you put those two responses into Ai and see where you are on that map a top right hand corner you you've got fully defensible you know hard to replicate and you're adding order of magnitude of improvement AI will map you and put you in that top right hand corner I would suggest that you have the potential to be a category maker so how do we even know I mean because defensibility to be honest with you because you said yourself a lot of times the marketers are not near the top of the company and sometimes businesses don't think about defensibility until they get much bigger so how do we even know how do can AI help us figure out what are defensible unique thing is yeah so I've actually built this custom GPT um Michael okay and this custom GPT basically asks you questions around the value Dimension okay and and uh it asks you whether you're um providing uh the same incremental or order of magnitude of improvement you know along a number of value parameters and then on the defensibility parameter it it basically says what are your three defensible modes M your top three right and I do put on the uh on the GPT that technology might not be truly defensible and I give them some examples of things that are probably more defensible in their areas right okay so if it's a doughnut shop I actually it applies to any industry so the AI helps them identify potentially yes potentially what those are right so uh the GPT suggest like things like ingredients and recipes and things like that so I begin to like feed it with some ideas for other things Beyond technology that will allow you to be defensible so you pick your top three and then I say uh the GPD says weigh these top three which of these three do you believe is um is the one that you have the strongest defensibility in so you might say all right uh ingredients 50% you know recipe 40% location 10 something like that so it's a weighted average okay wait weighted and then it it it does a calculation and then the combination of the Value Plus the defensibility it Maps you on a chart is this GPT freely available yes it's on the GPT store so anyone's called 20 it's um uh what is it uh strategic defens ability analyzer okay and just for those that don't understand what the GPT store is on chat GPT with the paid account I think it's only on the paid account but you could correct me if I'm wrong that's right you can add these things called custom gpts that are pre-designed and you said it's called custom defensibility what was it yeah it's um competitive defensibility analyzer okay cool um so it guides you because you've developed the you've developed a line of questions behind the scenes to help guide anyone to determine the defens ability competitive defensibility analyzer love it and um so once they have Okay so let's talk about this just for a second you know like it sounds like what I'm hearing you say is that hey you can use AI to kind of um query you to help you figure out what your defensibility is and you've built the the prompts behind the scenes to make that easy um how long have exercise does this typically take you know if you were to do this like for example with a client or if an AI was to do it with you is this something that takes a long time I'm just curious like what's what's involved here the the research the data cleansing is what takes the most amount of time right once you do that using the GPT could be you know 30 minutes got it but but the key is whatever answer it spits out is just a place to start okay because what what that now does is you have a framework by which you can take this to your leadership team your executive team you know if you're a small business maybe you and your partner you now have a conversation right you now have a a debate around what AI spit out and and you determine whether that makes sense to you um and but but now you have something data driven that that gives you a lot more insight and I think from that discussion that I believe is the most value it's not the answer that AI gave it's the discussion with anyone else in the company that you need to align with and based on that discussion now you can have you know something that you can validate in the market and then ultimately make a final decision all right we're a me too we need to increase you know our defensibility we need better ingredients or we're not meeting the needs of the market do we need to go after a different Market a different segment of the market do we need to improve the product for this particular segment that we're going after I think it really creates it illuminates where the problem is and then we need to figure out how we need to solve for that problem if that makes sense it does so on one side we have value on the other side we have defensibility and this is like uh and we're a DOT somewhere on this like rectangular Matrix kind of thing for a lack of better words so an AI can assist us on determining relatively easily our defensibility by asking a few questions by going to your competitive defense ability analyzed custom GPT um the data side of it is a little more complicated as we've talked about before but if you have all that information and it plots you on a spot that in and ideal you want to be upper right right you want to be like you want to be highly defensible and you want to be highly valued I mean that's the ideal scenario right because as you mentioned if you're there then you've got a great opportunity once you see where you are where how do you use this now strategically to make decisions moving forward yeah like I said it will vary depending on the the business and where they want to be right some people are okay being a me too and that's their business not everybody can be a category maker that's a hard place to be in as well right because when you're a category maker you don't want to be in a category of one right you got to attract other people to be want to be part of that category and things of that nature right so people will have business will have different places where they want to be and then that is more a decision of um like the example I gave hey we've got this product it doesn't quite fit the market do we go after a different Market okay and then now that's yet another use case for AI because I was working with a company that had that same problem and they're like oh here are eight potential market segments that we could go after for our product well I'm like okay which one do we go after right because you can't go after eight what's what are the two or three markets that we need to go after then that's yet another use case because we have to now evaluate each one of those segments across a number of criteria is it Market size market growth competitive intensity uh reference customers strength of the ecosystem of Partners all sorts of things again we can use AI feed it with data it can do some Force ranking for us it can build a heat map for us and then you know we can apply weights it can um have a a final answer for us what the top two or three segments are that would be best for us based the criteria that we gave it if that makes sense yeah and where I think this is kind of exciting is you could tell the AI hey um given this data what opportunities do you see uh for us to potentially get from here to here right and I would imagine it would come up with ideas and then you could discuss those with the AI and maybe go back with more of a plan to your executive team is that is that kind of what I'm hearing you say yeah I think I always a start the discussion it is it is a starting point right it it's a um AI is awesome as a thought partner right okay because you can ask it questions you could say all right I'm thinking about these three segments here's what my business is like here's my positioning and here's um my areas of defensibility tell me the pros and cons of going after each one of these or you can say something like use the thorn Bud uh Rose framework Rose Thorn Bud basically says you know here are the positives here are the neutrals and here are the negatives for one of these right and and it will give you a starting point and then you then need to do your research and and kind of be introspective with the leadership team to see you know how that Maps well or not well with your thinking so I I love how it gets us started with some hypothesis but then human oversight all the time our own experience our own data trumps whatever AI uh might recommend I love this this has been so fascinating and um I really like the idea that we're utilizing AI to help us think strategically right and it's not necessarily doing the thinking for us instead it's doing a little bit of analysis for us given the the large sets of data which is speeding our time and it's also allowing us to like you said have a thought partner right like I love using the voice mode on the chat GPT paid version when I've got really sticky things that I'm processing right and it because I'm a verbal processor and that's what I love is I got the transcript of what I said and what it said when it's all done so I think what I'm really hearing you say is AI is kind of like a really fast employee right that can help you move things along relatively quickly where this would have taken months now this going to be done very fast is that right yeah and the analogy that I use Michael is Imagine lifting something from the ground that's really heavy right if you're lifting it from the ground up that's painful right AI lifts it just a little bit above the ground you know maybe six inches 12 inches higher it's a lot easier right to get it up so you know that's how I think about it I I think about it as a tool to help us get started um helps us with datadriven insights that we would normally have to use you know a lot of time and manpower to do and then ultimately once we apply human oversight we now have a a framework by which to align different people right and and you know unlike the past in the past where this could take an enormous amount of time and resources and we didn't have the appetite for that and we sometimes skipped the steps as a result now we don't have that excuse it shouldn't take that much time to do things right get this thing right then our campaigns will be so much better get this thing wrong fast your path to failure Lisa Adams this has been a fascinating dialogue if people want to connect with you I I'm guessing LinkedIn is your preferred platform so how do they reach you there and then if they want to connect with your business uh where do you want to send them yeah so LinkedIn uh Follow Me So Lisa Adams Li IA and um growth path.net is my website so you can reach me there as well thank you so much for sharing your insights with us today all right thank you so much Michael happy to be here