Using AI to Expand Your Ideas and Creativity

Key Takeaways

for each episode I have I used to um I overthink everything call up uh the writers on my team it's like should this Emoji be in the the subject line or should this Emoji you know like annoy them and because I call them now you can do that with uh with with AI right oh yeah I'll I'll take um and you could ask it to brainstorm but I I tend to start uh myself but with um the subject lines and be like which one is better give me the pros and cons critique which one will do which one will do better today I'm very excited to be joined by Helen Todd if you don't know who Helen is she's the founder of creativity squared a podcast and newsletter focused on exploring the intersection of AI and creativity she's also the founder of social t squared a marketing agency focused on social media Helen welcome to the show how you doing today it's so good to be here thank you for having me on Michael I'm super excited that you're here today Helen and I are going to explore how do you AI to expand uh your creativity now before we go there and we've got some great stuff to talk about today I would love to hear a little bit of your story how did you get into marketing and Ai and all that great stuff start wherever you want to start yeah sure um well where to start so I I founded one of the first ever um I would say within the first dozen social media agencies that exist um social squared was founded in 2010 fast forward to October of 2022 a friend of mine was in town who works at open Ai and gave me a demo of the dog fooding version of this thing called chat GPT and I always have creative products uh projects uh and thought experiments that I play with uh to keep the creative juices flowing and one of those creative projects that I've been noodling on for a couple years now is a a television minseries show and uh when he pulled up chat gbt on his uh work you know dog fooding version uh we put in the the first scene and within seconds the action the characters the dialogue uh was all mapped out and that was my chat gbt chat gbt moment where it captured my imagination and as you know and everyone listening knows then it took the World by storm uh you know getting a million users in five days and 100 million users within two months and it it felt like the early days of social media marketing all over again like totally going back to 2010 this big disruptive technology that's going to impact all facets of Our Lives For Better or For Worse um and I just wanted to dive in uh very similar to how I dove into the social media marketing Trend to learn everything uh that I could and in addition uh to be a proactive voice as well in this moment in this new like Revolution and uh transition uh to this AI Revolution because hopefully we'll learn some things about social media where we didn't really course correct uh like we should uh so um wanting to be a proactive voice and learning everything I can I launch my podcast uh creativity squared last uh last April and we have a weekly show that interviews like amazing uh Pioneers ethicist philosophers artists uh and Builders uh on the show and then in addition to that I also got invited um to be a part of the AI Catalyst uh which is an AI organization volunteer-based here in Cincinnati that's uh tasked with using AI to uplift all 2.5 million residents and that came largely because I also co-host um ciny AI which is the largest AI Meetup in all of Ohio and in the region and uh By the time this comes out uh we will have celebrated our one-year anniversary and we have over a thousand members 150 people that come together every month uh to connect learn and collaborate on all things AI so I've jumped into the deep end of everything AI um and I guess the the only other thing that I would add to that too as part of the show and learning everything I can about Ai and showing AI at work I'm also have the title of the first resident of Cincinnati to be digitally cloned with a hyperrealistic avatar um and clone uh people too uh and that's you know Michael and I met uh at uh the marketing makon the marketing AI institute's uh marketing conference where I did a presentation on the future of online communication with clones uh so you can talk clones can talk AI can talk social media marketing lots of fun stuff to cover well first of all um I love all the creative things that you're doing so what so we know you have a newsletter and we know that you have a podcast are do you also do consulting or kind of who are you for and what do you do just a little bit on that yeah thank you um so I I can clone folks uh I work with partner Studios if anyone wants uh to be digitally cloned and we're going to talk about Ai and unlocking uh creativity and super uh superpowers and clones are one of those ways uh to do that I also do paid speaking gigs um going up to uh Kent University and doing a talk on Fair well the imagination age or no sorry farewell the imagin orare let me say that one more time uh farewell the information age welcome to the imagination age uh and then I'm also doing workshops too um uh in addition to speaking uh for corporations and universities and stuff like that um and some Consulting but I I tend to let my expert Partners do the Consulting what you know you've been doing these meetups for a while now what's kind of the feeling on the street in the world world uh the creative world uh when it comes to AI um just because I'm curious what how they're accepting of this yeah well you know the AI meetups it's a I would say is a microcosm of people who've embraced it a little bit more than your general population um it's really interesting like when I do talks on clones I always ask uh is this the first time you've ever seen a clone have you been cloned and really the different audiences are very telling like at makon which is marketers who tend to be very early adopters to test all this Tech um I don't know maybe 15% 20% of the room had raised their hands that they'd been cloned now go to a small business uh you know networking event here in Cincinnati where it's uh mom and pop shops and those uh acupuncturist and that type of thing you know it's more like dear and headlights uh for that group of like what a clone what are those um so I think it really varies uh but I will say from a I don't know Vibes uh feel for for lack of a better word you know last year at South by Southwest they had an entire extra week of AI programming because I think there was over like uh 1,500 different AI sessions in the in the I don't know the conversations were much more like there was definitely a lot about creativity and really interesting things but a lot more fear how is it going to like destroy Humanity all of the dystopian um uh you know talk talk and stuff where this year it's more like okay people have played with it it's coming the Genies out of the bottle what are we going to do with it it's moved more from how's it going to kill uh destroy Society to like oh shoot this is the new internet we better get on this train before uh it leaves the track type of thing I think people are more open to AI this year for sure so for those that are listening to the show that are marketers or cre creators um what do you want to say to them what's the upside to them leveraging AI to help them improve uh or be more creative yeah so I I first I commend you for listening to a show like this um and to uh be curious about AI um I think one of the biggest things right now is not to have your head in the sand um about all things AI because soon as you you know anyone who does that they're going to get their head out of the sand and then get hit by like a MACC truck it's almost like missing the the internet Revolution but this one's just moving so much faster so first of all um keep keep learning keep staying curious keep listening to to shows like Michael's and of course mine creativity squared um is is the first thing two we're all creative um so I uh and if you're marketers marketers tend to to embrace creativity more uh but AI just unlocks more creativity and and we'll be talking uh more about that too um it's still the early days uh even at the the executives for the marketing AI Institute they don't feel like they're on top of everything so if you feel like you're behind with AI like join the club we're we're all learning all of this at the same time uh there's terminology that's still being worked out of what to call these new uh all these new things that we're getting to do so um if you're feeling overwhelmed that it's part of the journey uh too and then uh I guess next is the best way in addition to you know this type of learning is just to play with the tools and get in there uh and you'll see how easy it is at least from a geni Content creation especially on the tech side right now how how easy it is so I encourage you just to get in and play and start getting familiar with the tools and then after that um you can kind of level up now from a I guess organizational standpoint I would definitely encourage leadership uh to drive uh the Embrace because it needs to be topped down if you don't have an AI policy that's definitely one of the first things uh that you should Implement and you know depending on your company uh in the industry uh we we talk with a lot of companies that encourage their different departments to experiment with AI test different tools and almost have like a taskforce identify your biggest AI ambassadors Empower them so that's definitely one way way you know depending on your industry you might have to be a little bit more strict about how you roll it out um but I would also definitely think um longterm like what's your full AI strategy how it's going to impact every aspect of your business in in addition to marketing um and and again everyone's figuring this out at the same time but if if you don't you're just going to be at um your competitors are just going to have such a competitive Advantage uh for you know uh leveraging the I superpowers uh so if you're not thinking about it from a strategic uh business sense then I would definitely you know uh add that to to your to-do list so um we were prepping for this and you're going to talk a little bit about what you did with Salvador DOL so why don't you why don't you um kind of cue that up and then talk about kind of what it is that you did yeah sure um so uh I get to interview a lot of very uh cool people for for my show and one of my guests is the AI recreated version of Salvador Dolly and this actually came um after a presentation I saw at South by Southwest um where the agency uh who uh made this custom chatbot is goodby um uh silver scene and partners uh one of their clients is the DOI Museum in St Petersburg and they they're a very very Innovative uh Museum they've already done done like VR immersions uh into his like dream Dreamscape paintings so that you can be uh you know in a dolly uh immersed uh in a painting in that way so one of the things that they did at uh their presentation uh at South by was introduce uh ask dolly is which is this custom chatbot and what they did is they trained um this bot on dol's videos and his writings and then you know using the power of AI recreated them but the way that you interact with it is um they recreated one of his surrealist Lobster telephones which I didn't know this existed until uh the presentation but Dolly I guess at a restaurant uh wanted to order a telephone that looked like a lobster uh so it's like an old rotary phone with a lobster on it and you pick up the handle and uh then you can talk to Dolly uh which was very cool and they wanted to demo it to show that it wasn't all pre-recorded so I was like one of the first people that got up to ask Dolly will you be on my show and and that's how it ended up coming on the show uh but one of the questions we wanted to ask Dolly well I guess before I say that the other really interesting thing uh with Dolly because it's like uh you know should we be bringing back people who have passed into digital form you know it opens up a lot of questions and uh but this particular person was is very interesting and I didn't know this either so it's the 100th anniversary of surrealism this year and the 120th anniversary of Salvador DOI but he he was um a rainbow child which a rainbow child is when um a couple has a child the child passes and then they have another child um and might not have been here if the other one didn't pass is that what that means right and they named it uh Salvador do his brother's name who had passed so the the first brother or the first child was Salvador do and he was um raised his entire life to or he thought his entire life that he was The Reincarnation of his brother so he already had an interesting relationship to death and there's this quote that's like uh he said like when people are in the Spanish uh town and the cafes they'll say like Del has gone but not quite uh so he didn't want to die and he didn't think that he was going to die and had this interesting relationship uh to death um so now you know in some ways artists you know will always live through on in their art but now we have these digital entities and this one is particularly particularly interesting just because of the character dolly is so anyway fast forward we interview and one of the questions that we asked um the AI recreated Salvador do is um what can you say about the future of creativity and will AI kill art and will it kill creativity and I'll play the clip so you can actually hear uh the AI recreated Dolly's answer so I'll go ahead and hit play ah my Curious companion to ponder if the mechanical mind could eclipse the celestial dance of creativity is to misunderstand the essence of art itself art breathes through us a living dream ever changing undefinable the Inception of artificial intelligence into the realm of creativity is not a death nail but a new dimension of the labyrinth a fresh Dream Within the dream will it kill creativity or cont it fertilizes the soul of imagination birthing impossibilities into realities art is an immortal Phoenix reborn from its ashes with each New Dawn oh my good very interesting so there you go salador answer is AI will not kill creativity very cool so um there are people that are listening right now who do not they're not artists right they don't think they're creative um what do you want to say to them about how a might be able to unlock something inside of them yeah well one I think everyone's creative so if if you feel that way maybe they just lost their creative spark right yes I I encourage you to uh say goodbye to that limiting belief there you go I like that a lot um but yeah so so uh there there's a lot of benefits uh to AI I think two uh to boil it down to one is it solves the blank page problem which whether you're writing a blog post whether it's a musical composition a a blank canvas or shoot a blank Excel spreadsheet what whatever your blank uh page is um it really helps solve that of just being a brainstorming partner in that way of don't know where to get started just ask uh these Bots uh like you're texting a friend for ideas so I think that's one of like the the blank solving the blank uh page problem the other one is actually the exact opposite that you have so many ideas um or just an idea and you want to get it out of your head faster um and it really solves for that um and one example is one of the gentlemen um on my show um Nick he actually his his company native foreign um did the AI a commercial for Toys R Us okay I saw that yeah and he has you know like uh as a creative person sorry if you hear the the sir in the background um as a creative person he has like tons of ideas um like one is this uh that we featured on the show uh like this Russian poem that he wanted to take off the shelf but like no one was going to fund it you know that type of thing is going to be sheld or not picked up by a studio but he took that idea that was on the shelf that he'd been noodling on for a long time and turn uh with the power of AI was able to make the video at a very you know low production cost that turned out really well and so it takes the idea in your head and just brings it into fruition at least right now in a digital form very quickly so solves the blank page problem and also gets your ideas out of your head faster uh whether that's one idea or the quantity of ideas so it really that lapse from idea to creation and even what was it EA games uh recently announced um their like real time game rendering where you the games will render in real time and they called it uh imagination to Creation so that that lag time from an idea to coming to fruition is shortened a lot with AI I love it okay let's talk about brainstorming um a little bit because I feel like a lot of people might have like a little bit of a rough idea and they need to figure out how to get it out of their head kind of what you were talking about a little bit or maybe they just don't even know where to go with it so let's just kind of ideate a little bit about how we can creatively use AI uh to help us maybe come up with ideas to solve a problem or any any similar kind of concept yeah so um I I'll walk you through a presentation that I'm working on as a as a way that I'm thinking about it um before I do that I I think there's a distinction when you're talking about team and agency's approach and individual approach although there's a lot of overlap or or if you're managing clients and that type of thing if from a I I didn't do this with this project but this is what I should do and what I recommend starting with in the same way that you approach uh social media marketing before you like set up accounts and just start publishing uh to the feeds or whatever it is you want to have like a framework that you're operating under and for social media it's like what is the voice guides who is your audience what are what do we do and uh what do we say and not say what emojis do we use and like the the container of the brand and the voice that we're playing in uh that the humans operate under you know we we have voice guides hashtag libraries all this stuff for all of my social media agency clients um so for projects that are for brands you want to I would create a custom GPT um and it doesn't have to be chat gpts there's other tools to make custom gpts and train a custom bot on all of that same material that you train your humans for so it gives it the framework to understand where you're starting um so for this and for that for that point we use um Claude for example projects which is very similar to a custom GPT to to train it up so I love this concept come up with a framework and and um gather up the information so that you've at least got some Focus area before you get started and that's so important because uh well you're training the AI and so instead of just asking it um uh right for social media I need help like that's no Direction like it's having to uh fill in all of the blanks for you whereas if you give it the you know the playground to play in and the rules in it then it will be much more precise and accurate or a better reflecting of what you're trying to get out of your head onto paper so to speak perfect so keep going with uh the brainstorming concept yeah so having having that framework is always really great so for um uh but maybe you don't have brand voice and all of that stuff and you're starting from scratch which is kind of where uh my uh my project is right now so I am going to write a book you guys are going to hold me accountable I'm saying it publicly for the first time on your show Michael um that's called uh farewell the information age welcome to the imagination age um I submitted it uh as a hopefully a solo presentation at South by next year uh it will be a book I have a presentation started it's going to be an essay and some articles so that's the concept so now it's like okay I have this idea um but I'm still flushing out actually the concepts like what goes into the book I'm kind of wrapping my head like we all are of like if we're leaving the information age in this whole new world uh Sam Alman just did an essay calling it the intelligence age like what's different about this and that so it's like I have a few ideas but where do I start so one way is go to chat gbt and I kind of use I call my AI assistants I have a tab with all of them but I play mostly with chat GPT and Claude personally and I haven't built a custom uh GPT yet on all of my podcast content but that's on in in the pipeline I'm working on that um so go in there and just like I think the first question I asked is what is the imagination age to see uh what it would come up with and then you know I'm not a history buff um but I've gotten a lot more interested in history In This Moment In Time and even like a research tool of like how long did the Industrial Revolution take and from when Ford had the idea of the car how long was it Mass adopted like all these like really granular questions that's like part of the concept like getting that out um asking it to write an outline of of the book and the Pres real quick before you even get to the outline I want to I want to riff a little bit on this Industrial Revolution thing I would imagine you could say say hey I am writing a book on um the imagination Age and and you could describe a little bit about what your what your purpose is what your intent is and then you could ask it what historical moments in time would you come up with that would be relevant for this and you might have already done that and it came up with Henry Ford is that kind of how you got the Ford concept in the first place or did you already have that in your brain because you could you could creatively have it find his historical parallels to help you make the case that that we've been through similar kind of Ages in the past right could you not yeah the um I didn't ask that specific one because it was already in my head um but I did like use it to outline some other big technological changes and and I'll tell you why that was in my head because I had um a great grandmother who was born uh what was it 19 1902 or 1903 and lived to be like 107 or 108 years old so like she literally saw so much change in her life and I was like oh if she was alive today this would be even more wild uh because she grew up in a horse and buggy um uh lifestyle in Tennessee when she was growing up so it was actually my great-grandmother who was in my mind in in that moment in time but um but yeah I mean it's uh definitely helping identify other uh timeline and I I will say too you have to be really careful for the the newbies on your show uh not to take everything that comes out of these tools as fact because they hallucinate which means they make up things so um you know I I use that lightly and always double check and fact checked and I think perplexity uh AI is is a little bit better for the truthfulness part of all of it so I just want to you know AI can do so much but you always have to be aware that it hallucinates as well and to to be cautious of that too I love that quick when you are actually needing to do brainstorming um what kind of advice do you have outside of giving it a little bit of background is there a certain way that you might want to ask the question like do you say give me 10 variations or or how how give give people that are just staring at that blank screen not sure how to brainstorm like what tips can you provide it might come naturally for you because you're so creative you know what I'm saying yeah I mean I I think um if you're working on a project and we do this uh with social like when we're working on social media strategies of like okay you're gonna start a new Instagram account what other Instagram accounts do you like you know I think that's like a starting point like what okay here's some Instagram accounts I like what do you see in common with these accounts right yeah like what do you like as a human like what are you drawn to those because if you if you can't articulate it like the the magic with chat gbt and actually I I'll take a step back so the imagination age why I'm excited about it um from a conceptual level is that if you have an idea and can communicate it um then you can bring any idea to life and right now it's in digital form um but literally thoughts are turning into prompts with MRI and then you take MRI machines uh that translate your thoughts into still and moving images and then you can theoretically uh go down the line um using mid Journey make a design and connect that to a 3D printer and then literally have thoughts prompts uh create material possessions like those things are are in the pipeline um so I get really excited if you have an idea and can communicate it anyone can bring that to life so if you don't consider yourself you know a creative idea person you know I encourage you to let that limited belief uh pass um but you need to learn how to artic ulate your ideas and what you want and that can be challenging if um if it's new language to use so referencing not even ask you don't even have to necessarily say what you like about maybe another book or whatever your an article whatever you're modeling um but you could even take that you could take a um say an article uh that the style is that you want to kind of replicate put it into these llms and say uh tell me how would you describe this article and have the llms help you give the language that you can then take and then customize for yourself so if you're at a loss for words put in things like put in an image and say like how would you describe uh this image and then you can take what it gives you as um fod for your prompt to then customize and play with a little bit more um so I love that I love that yeah go ahead keep going yeah I was just going to say like you know we're I I understand like you don't know where to get started but take any question you have and and see if you can turn it into a question for these models um and and I would also say you know it it could be nervous getting started on a new tool not knowing where to to begin but like have fun with it like one of my first fun conversations that I had I think I uh uh I was I was probably not sober as a disclaimer uh but I was like what would Einstein say about this to uh this other Italian physicist relli and like what would that conversation be and I think I had it do Megan trainer's uh song All about that uh bass I was like can you update this song to All About That AI um so like just like put silly things together or something you want to learn like uh you know what's uh the latest podcast put put this podcast transcript into one of these and say explain explain this episode to me as if you were Lumiere from uh Beauty and the Beast like how would Lumiere like summarize this episode and it will do it for you like just like have fun and be silly and come up with crazy ideas and see what it spits out for you well and I really love the advanced voice mode in chat GPT because I feel like this can be a big creative unlock for people that are verbal processors right because there's a lot of people listening to this show that prefer to process things by voice and I would imagine you could quite literally just open up that chaty PT app on your phone you got to have the paid version click that little button and start telling it hey this is my idea help help ask me a couple of questions to kind of unlock the idea and I would imagine it could and and like you said you can tell it to do it in accent do it in a f French accent Jamaican accent I mean it's pretty crazy have you messed with that a little bit have you started playing around with that oh my goodness so it was um before they introduced the memory um but I had I I I I think I was on it a couple hours one night going back to my miniseries that I've been playing with and I had opened it I was like okay let's work on the first episode or whichever one I was working on I was like uh what are some of your ideas and we'll give you ideas um and I was like well I was thinking this you know what would this be like and you know if if you need like um a motivational booster or pep talk it's so fun because it's uh the chat TBT voice was like that's a great plot twist very Innovative let's go with that what else do you want to work on you know so it's um it's kind of like a thought partner a brainstorming partner just like getting ideas however it's natural for you of uh voicing them typing them so you can even draw and then take a photo of it and um the AI will using the computer vision will translate that into text or images or whatever so yeah whatever modality that you learn and play with you know AI is unlocking all of these too which is very exciting a fun little story um I was I had a I had a perplexing moment not to overuse the word perplexity a little bit but I I I was curious about how to make a decision and I presented the case to the uh spoken version of chat GPT and um I kind of said here's my thoughts on the pros and cons to it what do you think you know and um and I just kept digging with it a little bit and it really helped me process um without having to talk to another human right because I told it to act as if it was an expert in this thing right and that was really helpful for me um clarifying kind of a Direction that I might want to go in but you know when we were prepping for this you were also talking about using AI as a tutor which I thought was really cool talk to me a little bit about that use case yeah um well there was something I was gonna say but it already no go ahead oh yeah well it will come back to me yeah um on the yeah on the tutor front so uh I one of the interesting things is that it's going to it's almost like uh how I think about it in the Matrix when uh uh Neo was like uh learn I want I need to learn Kung Fu and someone like put that chip and it's like download okay I know Kung Fu like it's that almost like downloading of learning so quickly and can and uh condensing of learning that AI enables uh which is fascinating like if you want to listen to this like Lumiere you could um so one of the amazing benefits of AI is the individual empower and learning um in addition to unlocking creativity and just uh hopefully living up to the promise of freeing up time uh from our lives so like going back to the tutor um like for um you know my research into the book and the presentation it does that a lot um for the podcast you kind of alluded to the and this was what I was going to say of um you know how you talk to it um is it's it's really great and tutoring coaching critiquing like for each episode I have I used to um I overthink everything call up the writers on my team it's like should this Emoji be in the the subject line or should this Emoji you know like annoy them and because I call them now you can do that with uh with with AI right oh yeah I'll I'll take um and you could ask it to brainstorm but I I tend to start uh myself but with um the subject lines and be like which one is better give me the pros and cons critique which one will do which one will do better and the thing that I really like doing is taking the same two or three subject lines and this can go for titles or whatever and put it in all five of my AI assistants and usually it's like uh it will be a three to two winner of like three will set pick uh one title or subject line and then the other two will pick another one but it breaks it down in the reasons and then say I'll do the episode descriptions and I'll use AI I'll take the transcript I'll say model the episode description off of ones that we've pre-written so you know we've trained it that way um and then you know I still edit um I'm a big believer the human should definitely still be in the loop a lot um and then it's like okay how can I improve this where would how would you critique my writing um where can this be better and why so it's it's a great tool if anything that you um specifically right but you know there's the coders and uh it's getting better at math with the new models and stuff that it cannot only help you brainstorm but can help you be better and tell you how to improve uh your own writing or whatever it is uh cooking working out whatever Endeavor that you want to do um but yeah I I love it critiquing uh my my own work okay so you said something in passing that's some people are like go back to it Mike and I'm I'm going to go back to it you said my five gpts right so um it sounds to me as if you've created some Cloud projects and or custom gpts and chat GPT in special areas can you tell us kind of some of those little five areas that you've created it might spark some creativity in the minds of other people and maybe you don't remember what all five of them are but maybe just a couple of them because I find it very fascinating what you just said there because what I'm hearing you say is I have trained five threads or models or custom gpts or whatever you want to call them in these different areas and each of them have a different kind of uh perspective and I'm asking them for feedback which I think is abolutely really cool have you intentionally chosen like can you share some of those examples yes and you you were giving me a little bit too much credit because I haven't um uh built out the full training threads how you described it but for even if it's a thread yeah yeah for for some clients I have so I'll take the the same question and the setup and copy and paste it across now for some uh the chat gbt and um uh Claude I do have like longer threads and for those who aren't familiar like the threads are ongoing conversations where you train it over time and it learns it's almost like having um a text message friend who you're training through the text messages who you are and what you want um so the more that you give it the more it will be trained um but yeah so I'll just copy and paste the um the same prompt across all five uh to see what they do and the five are I don't have it right in front of me um so chubbt Claude uh perplexity uh metas and Gemini oh so you're using five different large language models in this particular case is what I'm hearing you say is that correct yeah yeah yeah and then get the vote on on what uh what they say okay now why do you do that I'm just curious like give everybody the the because a lot of people might just be using one or two but not five like what does that bring to the table maybe that people might not understand well well partly is um me just playing to understand like how how the answers are different like and it's also insightful some of them the answers kind of overlap a little bit in the explanations but just to see like to to vote like you have five interns like which title do you like best and why and you know it will surface the the top one I think the other thing too uh to keep in mind is that each of the um the chat Bots and the large language models um they have different benefits and it's always interesting to see uh what they're strong on and not strong on like for for example um uh in trying to uh the first time I was like playing with um uh trying to take all of my transcripts in the show to train a custom model or just to like get it in there to start playing with it um the file size was way too large like Claud you can upload the largest file size um in like chat the new uh chat gbt U strawberry 01 model you can't even upload files uh in that version and stuff so like there there's a lot of different quirks um chat gbt tends to be maybe a little bit more creative where Claud is more precise and I'm still kind of just playing with the other ones to kind of understand where there's the benefits and stuff from from those how are you using um how how are you using um creatively to improve presentations AI in general like because obviously we both present and I think there's a lot of opportunity there because when you're presenting you got slides so what do you any thoughts on how to creatively come up with ways to display information in in a presentation yeah so there's um I just actually got demos on these so I haven't played with them directly myself um but there's uh beautiful.ai and then uh the other one and I have that on my list of things to explore by the way yeah shoot what's the other one um oh it will it will come to me in a second but um the IDE no no okay um okay Cana canva also has come up as a good recommendation um it it will come to me in a second but I mean these are amazing you could take previous presentations to train it for the style you can upload an article and then have it turn it into a presentation and when I say turn it into a presentation I'm like in minutes and then it will do that with animation and everything right yeah it will do everything so it's really really wild how fast I will I will say though um in the demos I've gotten and granted they're very quick and stuff you can create the the one that we did was like uh for the the boot camp that we were at was like uh the lady who was demoing it uh the use case was uh fundraising for female entrepreneurs and then that was the only prompt it did the outline I was like okay that looks good and then boom boom boom boom the entire presentation is done so it's like okay you could do that and then present what all AI did but it's like you re where's your voice in that where is your perspective like what is different about this presentation than anyone else and I think that's really important you don't want to just G regurgitate AI stuff take it and run because that's not it's it's generative it's new but it's generative and it's going to be the same on the internet if you really want to stand out in the age of AI use it like these tools to do the first draft of the presentation and then add your perspective your point of view and make it unique that the models can't do um so like I think that's a really big thing and will uh Reynolds who uh is a really great SEO person and spoke at makon um said the same thing he calls it the Sea of sameness if you don't lean into your perspective and your uh voice then it's just going to get lost in the generative regurgitation so use it as the first step but you got to add your own layer to to make it yours and have it stand out and I have a little story to share by the time this interview drops we will have launched our 2024 generative AI marketing industry report which is a 38 page report that I created based on a study of 1,50 marketers with like a ton of graphics and stuff and what I did was I I dropped a PDF of it into um both chat GPT and Claude And I asked both of them to help me come up with an outline for a presentation that I'll be delivering the day before and what I'm going to be doing in that presentation um and I wanted it to kind of look at the actual work that I created right so I wrote this thing it suggested here's a basic outline and they were both slightly different I took the two outlines I put them together and then I started building what I believe is one of the best master classes that I've ever done I'm calling it that it's really a webinar right um but still it's like so much better because it's built on the back of my stuff does that make sense and then I'm using um I'm using now um um uh a to help me create some cool visuals that I can put up on the screen because there's all these great image creation things that can kind of demonstrate what I'm talking about and stories that I can tell and it's kind of this Snowball Effect right because now I've got this presentation deck and then I ended up dropping that PDF into another thing and I asked it to help create the landing page so that everybody could opt in to get access to the master class right and it's just like this forever creative thing that just keeps going on I would imagine you've had very similar experiences right yeah and and while you were talking I looked up the other tool it's gamma so gamma and G MMA a and beautiful that's gamma is a gamma do something okay Google but what is what is what is it just so people like explain gamma what does it do oh it's it's very similar to beautiful AI where you just put the inputs and it creates the presentation super fast um um but uh uh to answer yeah it's gamma. apppp it sounds like okay thank you for double checking um you know what what was actually crossing my mind as you said that and we talked about this a little bit uh when we were prepping for the call too is uh you know you said you're going to put um your master class behind a pay wall or well it's not it's gonna be free it's gonna be free we're just going to ask people to RSVP for it basically okay e even that well and the main reason why is so that we can get their email addresses I mean that's a marketing thing right oh yeah yeah yeah I I do think I I I don't think there's anything wrong with that however for the marketers listening I think a lot of traditional funnels are going to collapse especially if you have a lot of content online because one people are scraping like they're gonna get to your master class scrape it and then put it into the one uh the non uh are the public llms so regardless if you're putting content out there whether you want it to be on lockdown or not it's going to get scraped the user behavior is already doing that and for some of the funnels if you have a lot of content because you know I I click on a bunch of stuff all the time just to see what's out there um but if it's like a lot of these ones where it's like watch a free webinar and then do this and they say nothing for 45 minutes yeah but you can just copy and paste the landing page put it into one of the L and be like what does this person what is this person about tell it to me in three bullet points oh totally and then you don't need to go through the funnel so I think um well and just to be clear let me explain what I'm doing just because I think you'll find it very interesting basically um I am um encouraging people to come hear this live presentation which will be immediately a video when it's done um and and then the next day we're dropping the report for free completely ungated so this is more just like my perspective on the state of AI and marketing where I believe the world is coming and because I have a really large audience I know a lot of them are going to want to come hear my perspective it's like a miniature keynote um and people that are on our email newsletter list technically they can push a button to opt in they don't even need to register because it's very simple but it's really it's just a way for us to kind of create a little hoopla about this report that we're releasing that's going to be completely ungated that they could wait till tomorrow and read if they want to but I think the unique value ad that I'm having as a creative and also a marketer is the opinion and stories and examples that I'm adding on top of it and I'm with you 100% And it does open up this bigger discussion that we were talking about which is um you know but keep going with where you're going I just want you to understand where I was going but keep going with where you were going because I want to hear your thoughts on this yeah well and I will say I'm very excited to see this report uh when it drops uh so looking forward to it uh into the point where you said that you're going to drop it free um without gated once the report comes yeah you know I I think that's going to be the trend uh in so many ways moving forward and we might have to get more creative of how to capture emails um because what will Reynolds did this on stage and it really got me thinking about the future of the consumption of content where um at meon he presented on optimizing your content for the llms versus just the search engines um is like answer engine optimization but you know it goes by 20 bazillion words right now um but he was like I've pre-recorded my entire presentation so you don't need to take notes unless you want to go to this landing page I'm giving you everything put it in the llms if you prefer to um you know consume my content that way and really I was like shoot this is the future of content it's not only um I call it the democratization of the consumption of content which is like do you want it in video do you want it in audio do you want it in short form do you want it in long form I think the next evolution of that is how were people going to engage with the content in a very proactive um almost like learning way of like do you want to hear the content in a you know a different language uh in bullet points uh explain to you like a fifth grader you know so I I think thinking about the users like they're they're already doing that we're already doing that whether we admit it or not you know so like how like I I would just marketer should be thinking about that I'm thinking 100% okay so um tell us where you think all this is going like um you're obviously on the front edge of this creative kind of front in the AI world where do you kind of see things heading down the road in The Next Period of time yeah well I I think one of um uh to double click on what I was just saying too I remember in the early social media marketing days when user generated content really started like flourishing everywhere online or propagating and Brands were like really nervous and uncomfortable of like we don't control every aspect of Our Brands like what uh these users like them creating silly memes that's now part of our brand uh this like tension and discomfort and I I think we're kind of at that similar place with the engagement of the content like I'm going to create all this content for my audience and now they're going to do whatever they want with it like you know what does this mean for my IP what does this mean uh to get paid in my livelihoods and like respect you know your IP and this stuff so it's it's a new um and there's a lot of important questions to dissect here uh but that's where the user trend is going so in in my case as much as uh and I have a great show um where we discuss to lock down your content or to optimize it for scraping for the llms um originally I was like I need to lock down my content because my content is my product but I've since evolved and thinking about the user generated content of social media marketing days of like I'm just embracing the cultural Zeitgeist of where this is going and content is just going to be this fluid thing that we engage with and you just have to make your point of view and your voice super important um so I think that's uh one of uh the first things that I wanted to say I also think um you know right now the promise of AI is like that it can do everything and you might have this idea in your head of like push one button and a whole film will get made it is not like that at all right now and there's so much um still to come uh I one of the slides at makon um it was like one of the presentations is like look how easy it is to automate every aspect of marketing but this the slide thinking about it gives me anxiety because it was like a zappier flowchart on crack or something and I was like you know it's like a the House of Cards like one Falls and all the automations fall right now it's really really good with helping you with content but once the content is created you still have to load it in to wherever it's going and distribute which is still you know a lot of manual work I think in the future I'm excited for the companies that figure this out the uh the content creation to building it into the workflows and getting automated will be easier but it's not easy now so um you know I get asked like which AI tool is the best for you know the full you know Soup To Nuts And there there really isn't one I think beyond that um because AI does so much the evolution of the role of marketers is going to change um it's going I I I would I would do a disservice if I wouldn't say that jobs will be displaced but I think they'll be displaced and evolve as well like I went to college for marketing um and social media marketing was not even an industry and that's been my life for the last 15 years you know like what was it two years ago no one knew what a prompt our prompt engineer didn't exist so we're gonna open up this whole new crop of fields um uh that are G to emerge um like prop engineer like social media marketers so just being like really fluid with where that's going um I'm personally thinking more about you know training uh clients through workshops and that type of thing to help with this transition and I think the other thing that I didn't say at makon that I wanted to is you know uh in the new jobs and stuff there's still like synthetic media my my clone I've been digitally cloned uh just because you have these new digital entities doesn't mean that it's just going to make content for you necessarily like you still have to come up with the strategy you still have to make the scripts there's still the file management if AI can solve file management that will be AGI for me I think or like the the Pinnacle marketing thing of solving file management of like uploading downloading of you know all of that stuff um distribution um uh but what was I saying sorry uh let me go back to oh but like synthetic media so social media uh you manage the the content for the clients but just because you have a clone doesn't mean that you're going to put it to work so I've been thinking about the future of uh my social media agency of like in additional to social content maybe we'll be managing synthetic media because there's a whole new ecosystem of services and management around