Deeply Nested Code, Bugs and Distributed Systems

Key Takeaways

[Music] hello welcome to the new stack makers a podcast where we talk about at scale application development deployment and management we'd like to thank code for sponsoring our live streams and podcasts from the software circus and Amsterdam code is a team of passionate open-source engineers and advocates building community through contribution and engagement in emerging technologies according to the code team calm it's not just a bunch of colors and stuff we say it's a core fundamental of what we believe open source provides that's what drives the co team to learn more about the code team again at the code team we didn't talk about you know as we kind of give to you your performances here at the surgeons and software circuses parties you know it is quite you know I was here last year as well this year they've gone off all I will the circus team there the first year they were like throwing around topic this year well I think we where when he was speaking or I was in the sort of boot just beaten over ceremony yeah yeah this quality certainly high-concept protect oh yeah there's like this there's like this yes there's like this knowledge isn't yep and well I think I think different tracks got different sort of lightly nearly saw a half project ask whatever group they're doing some of the talks to be presented along with a guitar which is a new one on me yeah no it's a focus on and you're talking about designate your software and okay what is that what does that mean well why you talking about that so I shot up on this is the story of a single bug in a single very small bit of software the reality is that steps from that small bit of software to an to another bit of software to another bit of somewhere to a actually the open API descriptions bark abilities into the open API expects version 1 version 2003 and actually then into a girl library and the solve them I'm increasingly with the software work building is so it's not all in one it's not the historical modeling whether it's microservice the way it's libraries whether it's using software elsewhere you'll rely on so much or the bits that when it comes stretch pining you and you end up looking off a lot of places and often when you're fixing bugs into the mid different places and sometimes that'll be the right place sometimes that'll be the fastest place sometimes there'll be more expensive places I always think that that's sort of interesting especially as we move increasingly towards like services those things to come about the service there's not just so you know nature like the applications using AP API calls exactly but even if you're you're building towards sort of Micra service ideal sort of pi racism i've taken for a service actually further user is doing may be buying something and then might give tens of services and you get into all of that essentially finally a problem in that but it could be anywhere it could be in the connections between limited services could be in a library supporting multiple service it gets quite interesting the complicated even though the little bit software are already small I think that's interesting yeah it's like you know it's like when you just any in everyday consumer like you know some way their goal is what just happen it could be anything right I'm well one of the things I'm sort of combative in the talk is around just the importance of like specifications and standards I think sometimes we especially lot of developers on the cutting edge and sometimes it cost them working with software that move so quickly and some of these presentations tend to be slowly they can tend to sort of touch those to the side but without those strong like specs and standards and and things like up an API things like Jo PC first of all buffers having these strong like bits in the middle that's high things together I think you can build very fragile systems so building fragile systems you know using approaches such as we're ggr PCs for example I you know what do you explain it I'm it so I have done quite a bit with probably a little bit more we'd open up the eye but also some bits more recently the G received four different types of application a depends on whether actually is useful the comments for you doing I think both have like that I listen to be the ones that are I having but both most users at the moment but also feel right for the domain Mary and they're both evolving as well is good and there's certainly some overlap between the certainly some of these where they're slight different not that certainly the give it a these concept context which I've been doing some of this work is and a lot of the kubernetes Eternals our seed I don't live guy is yeah and there's some gaps there around for example how they do type so I again even though up there we have these discreet specifications it would be nice if there was more into rock or mod and discussion at that Bank and so this thing around the designated software yeah it time I saw an explorer all Martin Michael we like the toy tale of wooden bug so a very simple bug in it to allow recalled at coop owl so especially a tool for validating qss companies so and you might get handwriting them llamo I was less people okay but you might be on my job but in all those cases you want to ask the question is this valid and often in cases is this valid against multiple versions of together so if I write it comes a fire and I print like demo or an example or it module or whatever I want to be able to say not is it not just it works for me on the version of in EQI happen to be running today but does it work on this book like these different versions on the air - if you look at the available evolution of kinetics have to make you look at them they have new confident happy then they have changes to existing and be able to say yes this conflict is valid for all these powerful um so we talk a lot to vowel and but that had a bug and it saw the story of one of these both actually and the actual program is a couple hundred lines of girl but the actual end Lindsey chain is much longer and the book ends up several steps beyond anyway sort of a neat interesting example of highlight if that's very interesting his betrayal you know but you know did we why even if us or small that's the thing about love the the software increasingly able to write powerful software and with very little code because of this one but like when you have open source libraries practice managers around there and increasing I like service functions or microsomes all of these things about being small but you're actually that the iceberg to what actually running that's a and so that holds up supply chain the holes on industry and the fact that bugs often sit in a combination of although it's the interaction between all those I could talk to you all day about this good but I want to just stop it here but before I do what are you doing it publicly is what's keeping you busy I'm looking out all sorts of bad different at the moment so I've spent no time saw folks they don't like it I guess pop it and talk containment space so we've done a lot of interesting integration with docker doctor-patient of our recently fab committees but I'm actually working across a number of he was the moment off and some of the something I guess either problem hook problem containing are some research bits oh yes variety different things yeah there's a lot I know so long going on with the pet around contain a story and but also that Isis operates hardware how to time the Duncan was second back today how do you take people from their existing the implement their existing software's that and without saying you have to rewrite everything I think that's one of the things where they sort of spans multiple generations people doing different things like that song good thanks so much for taking some time you know to talk and recording he will touch and enjoy they enjoy the circus yeah [Music] listen to more episodes of the new stack makers at the new stack io / podcast please rate and review us on iTunes like us on YouTube and follow us on soundcloud thanks for listening and see you next time [Music]