Fireside with Teresa Ribiera, EVP, European Commission for Clean, Just & Competitive Transition

Key Takeaways

So, madame executive vice president, I am it's such an honor for me to interview you. As I said before, um we're I want to focus first on the digital markets act, the DMA. Um as Luther said, I happen to represent Duck Duck. Go is are my are my clients here? I guess not. um they um we rely on the DMA quite a bit and midway through your predecessor commission commissioner vestiger's term she was asked what was her biggest regret and she said not taking bold enough action under the DMA and I am going to ask you what is your attitude towards bold action under the DMA Okay. Oh, thank you for the question and thank you for the invitation. I'm a little bit each one has her own profile. So, I'm a little bit more like the type of transatlantic partnership that the previous picture was showing legal from Denmark being combined with your little tech. So, these two pictures of the two of us working together. It's a small job, but it is important. I think that the reason why we need to take bold action under the DMA is because we think that as responsible for this public functions. We need to be sure that opportunities for innovation for new startups for new people challenging the incumbents count on um room so to perform but also can count on an administration different administrations that cooperate to ensure that this may happen and um probably she uh she did what she had to do. I think that she was very modest when humble when saying that because it was under her leadership that the DMA was adopted and it is not so easy to figure out how we combine the type of governance the type of u powers the type of uh deduce and don'ts that the different companies and the criteria to identify the gatekeepers. Now we think that it is easy or we don't like or whatever but it was not so easy to to to have this there. So I think that she was brave. I'm going to be brave. Of course I'm going to be brave. I'm I'm bound by the law. I think that it is good to provide this sense of reliability and commitment to to the defense of um different um users but also to the creation of a space for innovation and new people entering into this market. Thank you. Um let's turn let's get granular. Let's turn turn to what areas we may see your boldness in action. And I want to start off by noting that your um title has changed. Commissioner Vvestiger was the commissioner of competition. Your title is the executive vice president of environmental justice and competition transition. How will your enforcement approach differ? and will you take more aggressive steps such as structural remedies or swi swift reform actions to achieve your goals? I guess that today's world is a very different world from the the one that we experienced 10 years ago. Um we are speaking about market forces that already exist. I don't I cannot figure out how a company that in intends to be successful longlasting successful company cannot take into consideration the impact on the society of what they produce and the demands of the society to to to count on good product services but also to to pay attention on the welfare of the society or the fact that uh well there are limited resources. So if there are limited resources and the whole world intends to increase the quality of life, it is quite wise to think about green environment, climate, all those things that seem to be quite revolutionary but that are not revolutionary are just common sense data and reason. So when we take into consideration the different market forces to assess any individual case including those happening under the different markets. These are references that need to be taken into account as well as the different time scales in terms of identifying how productive, effective or um anti-competition any behavior may be. And somehow this is reflected in the in the title of of my mission. So yes, I deal with competition policies. in my mission letter says that I need to be sure that we can put in place an evolution of the way we um implement the competition tools to to be ready to defend the rights of the consumers to ensure a level playing field a well functioning open economy to improve transparency and dedication and um and this is what we intend to do. I take it from your remarks that you don't believe that bold enforcement of the DMA is contrary to any of those things. And I'd like to compare that with the signals you're getting right now from the United States. Um, do you interpret the omission of the DMA and Vice President Vance AI speech in Paris and the US's restraint on criticizing the DMA as a positive sign? I mean are you assume are you seeing any common ground emerge with Washington on reigning in big tech? I know what the European consumers uh think and say. I know that they think that this is very useful things that they can use. The digital world helps to improve the quality of their products, the way they relate to the others and um the capacity to keep on improving uh their own business. as users or the services they can provide if they are providing services in the digital context. But they also would like to count on an administration that pays attention to ensure a level playing field fairness in the way they they they can accept uh these um services without putting at risk I don't know privacy different rights the possibility to choose between different providers suppliers and so on. So we had a difficulty to identify how we could enter into that and um when this conversation started a long time ago during the Trump one administration it was already clear that this type of feelings sentiments expectations were very present in the American society too. Mhm. So we thought that it was good to learn from each other to identify how we each of us could protect the consumers through the regulation and the strong enforcement of the regulation and that's what we have been doing along along these years more than 300 million Europeans to rely on Google or rely on Meta for any type of provision of services or access to many different aspects of their day-to-day life. So these 300 million people expect from their administration to protect their rights. Um when um implementing the DMA, we also opened the space for small very valuable digital companies, many of them coming from the US that um identify that they can work and um and develop their own products and uh that the consumers may identify their products as most preferable products, more preferable products than the products being provided. provided by traditional incumbents. So I think that there may be some misunderstandings because in fact it is not against anyone. It is to protect the rights of our citizens the same way it could be the right or the way to protect the rights of the American citizens and the American companies. And um and I guess that uh this is something that if it has been somehow misinterpreted should be clarified but uh it's so good to count on American companies developing this business to perform so well to have new challenges contesting the existing ones providing new services it's exciting I think it is thrilling I think it is great news but um I guess that um I have to ensure that my children may challenge their parents their mom in case they find ways to solve the problems in a better way. So the same for the digital world. Well, picking up on that leveling the playing field for startups. I know there are many people in here which want you to elaborate on that a little bit. How do you plan to ensure your policies help startups and scaleups compete rather than inadvertently burden them? In other words, can measures like the DMA really empower the next generation of startups which I think all of our children are getting involved with. My impression is that this has already started when the application with the application of the DM MA and the DSA. Mhm. The way we try to provide guidelines on how to ensure interoperability between the different players. The way we um ask uh to open a space for uh new services using the existing platforms. The way we ask for transparency on how it works helps to identify room for this um uh startups. And in fact, we see a trend where smaller companies um get a bigger share just because just because this culture of compliance, this culture of um common learning, the learning curve to identify how we can uh apply this uh this new regulation um offers an opportunity to rebalance a little bit the the share of the market of these of these existing big players. and provides room for the new ones or the smaller ones entering into the market and um and I think that this is good. It is quite appreciated by consumers as I said but I think that it is rapidly identified by these smaller companies. So to make their offer to the general public and to get additional room to develop their own business case and the capacity to innovate and to perform in a different way in many occasions to compete on a briefer basis and get better results. So that's what all of this is about since the very beginning. I I want to pick up on a theme that I see is running through all of your answers and it's that tension the balance between regulation and innovation which we all struggle with all over the world and how do you view this balance in your new role or not so new anymore sorry and um can Europe be a global regulator and a tech innovator? What what are your views on the regulatory safeguards and how they can coexist with an environment where startups can flourish? To me, good regulation is a a very relevant basis, a very relevant ground to ensure innovation. It is not the only factor. Of course, you need to count on educated communities that are motivated, engaged and have the capacity to perform better that um have the appetite to improve the quality of whatever product, service or thing being demanded by the society. But I think that good regulation helps into this. Um if the regulation is chaotic, inconsistent, incoherent, if it is a kind of um how to say wild west where the most powerful and aggressive attitude gets the whole market it could be very difficult to ensure that there is an open space for innovators. So I think that we need to to do and and this is not new. This has happened during decades in different fields and different sectors. What it is new is that we are entering into this digital era with a a different view, a different manner to behave, a different manner to ensure proper governance and we are learning to do so. This is why the the value of uh the DMA and the DSA and the role of the European Union as front runners in this approach to me is courageous coming back to my predecessor Margaret de Bester. But it has also been a source of inspiration of many in many different geographies, many different countries. And what u we think is that um deepening the cooperation between the the national administrations and forces of of the competition law is is key because we all are learning in this in this uh in this new world how we can improve the quality. I mean now we could not think of a a sector where the national competition authority could have allowed to do whatever any any industrial sector no industrial sector could have been playing his cards her cards in such a way and I think that we we find it quite natural and um and this should be the case also for the digital one I can't say I disagree Um, let's dig down a little bit more specifically since we're at the Little Tech Composition Summit. I want to talk about interoper interoperability and technical challenges which is a struggle for courts in Europe, courts in the United States. How do you plan to to ensure effective implementation? Can you encourage or compel companies to open up to competitors in a way that is seamless and safe? In other words, what's your approach to overseeing the technical obligations? Yes. Well, we it's technically of course it is complicated when we think about an administration trying to to figure out and to follow uh how this can be implemented in such a way that it is sound both for the company but for the users and respect the privacy and of the data and so on. U it requires the support of uh technical people within the administration or external support but being connected with the administration to count on the right information and the right uh way forward not to make any any mistake. At the very same time I think that this is feasible. It's not that uh because it is difficult we are not going to do it. We need to pay attention to all the cyber security concerns that there may be around of the privacy, the protection of the private data as I said. But I think that it is important to ensure this interperability because at the end it is it is the the bridge to ensure that there may be a a capacity to to move and to provide more space for new for new players and to avoid a bubble restricted on itself. with no capacity to to to open to new to new developments. And um this is by definition and I insist on this by definition one of the goals of the DMA and in certain cases we may find some companies where by definition things should be non interoperable. So it may be inevitable to to have a clash on this. In the couple of minutes we have left, let me talk about you're at the beginning of your fiveyear at least your first fiveyear term. Um how will you measure success in your management of the regulations of the DMA? What indicators will you tell will tell you that Europe's digital competition policy is working? I like biodiversity. You know, I come from the green world and I like biodiversity. And here it's more or less the same thing. A rich biodiverse digital safe future that works well in a peaceful manner. So with not so many clashes around and that provides room for innovators to innovate. I think that we will we will be witnessing in the years to come to what extent we are able to to draw all the benefits of this new legislation regulation and to what extent it is a way to to manage uh in a much more friendly common way the challenges that um the users in at one side or the other side of the Atlantic identify as relevant pieces to to keep on succeeding. And if you see that the outcomes are not materializing as you'd like them to be, are you prepared to adjust course to what? Adjust your course. Change change how you're I mean I think that this is the beginning of a new era and we are learning. So it's not it's not that I am prepared or I'm not prepared. I'm sure that we need to adjust course because none of us knows very well how things may evolve and we may find something absolutely unexpected that um brings us to a new paradigm which is fantastic that does not fit for purpose or it can be the other way around that we identify loopholes that deserve further attention in order to improve the quality of u the job and the products that are being provided to the to the market. So I think that we need to be humble to to be transparent to learn and to adjust in order to improve. Not in order to go back but in order to improve. I think your openness to adjusting as we embark on this new era shows that you absolutely have the temperament to succeed. So but I want something because I see the signals coming from the audience. I want a picture with that uh with that um other picture in the screen that you and me in the scene with the picture. I found we were beautifully represented in those. I think so. I want one too. Luther, what are we going to do about that? Can we Can we put the picture, please? And then I promise I leave. Oh, there we are. I'm going to put it up in my office if you'll put it up in yours. Thank you so much.