Ant Middleton Opens Up About His Personal Demons, Being "Cancelled" & His Spirituality | E74

Key Takeaways

one of the things that i say um is the most courageous thing you can do above all bravery is this is the personal life that i really keep to myself you know i've spoke a lot about it today which i've never spoken about before [Music] ant middleton and is an adventurer a military vet a television host an author an entrepreneur and one that's become highly highly respected as an authority when it comes to things like survival and endurance and leadership techniques and due to his experiences as an elite special force member he can talk about these things in a way that nobody nobody else can and has very very recently been at the center of a huge media storm where he was quote unquote cancelled with his biggest show today sas judea's wins being axed by channel 4 after five years and the broadcaster came out and said that anne's views and values weren't aligned to theirs this is his first in-depth conversation that he's recorded since he was quote unquote cancelled i've watched countless amounts of interviews that ant middleton has done but the side of ant that you're going to hear today is one that even he admits himself that he has never fully shared before i'm going to say it this podcast lifted a ton of weight off my shoulders and answered maybe the most important question about life that we all must ask ourselves if we are going to be happy and if we're going to be successful and if we're going to be free and thank you for your honesty without further ado i'm stephen bartlett and this is the dire of a ceo i hope nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself and um when i was reading your book first man in there was um there's this quote at the end of one of the chapters and i thought it was a good place to start this conversation today because i tend to think that it's probably one of the more foundational pieces of information well it might lead to one of the most foundational piece of information to describe who you became in your life and what you've got on to achieve and this is what you you wrote at the end of the chapter it says it's called making friends with your demons having dark forces living within us is part of being human they're the result of inevitable damage of life each one of us has a choice make these demons work for us or turn them loose against us and slightly linked to that in the same on the same page you wrote most of most of us have horror stories we can tell you about from our childhoods it's not the horror that defines you it's how well you fought it what did that mean i think that's just a generic message to everyone to say that it's okay to have you know bad thoughts it's okay to have these demons inside you they exist in all of us you know but the important message is to exercise them because the moment you lock them away the moment you lock these thoughts away the moment you lock these demons away the moment you lock any negativity away all it's going to do is take over like a mold and it's going to completely engulf you and it's going to going to control you as an individual and it's only because i've been there and i've done it whether that's what i've done in combat losing my father at a young age um losing my mother um seeing bodies blown up around me seeing dead people around me seeing the effect it has on families seeing what my decision pulling that trigger or not has on a certain person or has on a certain family or has on a certain situation and it's ultimately being okay with who you are that's the whole thing about it it's being acknowledging that listen we're not perfect we're human okay we have weaknesses we have insecurities we have these horrendous thoughts sometimes now you'd be a liar to say you don't sit there sometimes and you know the things that go through your head if you actually voice them then that becomes a problem that's you not exercising your demons that's them exercising you and it's just about acknowledging that and i acknowledge that from such a young age i acknowledged that from a young age when my father passed away and i couldn't really understand what was going on can you tell me about that um yeah my father passed away when i was five years old and um within a few months a new man came into our life um my stepfather um and then within two years we up moved to france so we lived in portsmouth we often moved completely to france a new situation a new environment a new man in our life and i can just remember thinking i remember going into a bush in the fields where we lived in france after a couple of months we were there and i sat in this bush and the magnitude of the situation was so overwhelming i can just remember looking at the road and thinking to myself what am i doing here why why am i here what's the purpose i i couldn't grasp anything at that young age and it was during that moment when i let everything go and i can just remember thinking to myself don't try and understand what's going on don't i'm just trying to understand who this man is and where he's come from don't try and understand why you're in a different school speaking a different language because you can't don't try and understand all of a sudden you're living in caravans we moved we were living in a couple of caravans we were a big big family um from houses um and i can just remember dropping everything and thinking to myself understand what you can understand and that at that young age what i could understand was what i was feeling you know i could understand myself so when i look back on the death of my father and as i flip everything into a positive even though years and years and years down the line i'd done this you know the death of my father actually made me self-reflect from the age of six or seven so i've been self-reflecting you know understanding my emotions understanding how i feel understanding my demons understanding you know the good parts of me the bad parts to me the weak parts of me the strong parts of me the positive side of me the negative side of me and i've been really breaking it down from such a young age and that's given me an advantage in life i generally believe that that's given me my sort of bulletproof mindset on how to tackle anyone or any situation today so even though it's a traumatic part of my life and it affected me all the way up to my mid-20s in in a bad way where i'd go out and try and understand who my father was trying to understand you know i never went to his funeral i never went to to to his grave now my parents my say my parents my stepdad because he came in my life so young i called him my dad um they never told me where he was buried he was just completely cut out of our life um because of the situation beforehand you know for him to come into our lives a couple of months after it was pretty obvious that my mum was obviously having an affair or there's something going on and again i'm not judging anyone or the situation but you know so when he came into our life it was like right you call him dad my name changed from aaron to middleton not a lot of people know that really yeah um and this whole new life was just forced upon me forced upon me so i was either forced to act or force not to act you know sitting in that bush me forcing not to act was probably jumping in the road you know thinking like listen enough is enough did that cross your mind it was a big road it was a big road and it never got to that stage where i thought right i'm going to take my life but it was like you know this there's an easy option out of here which i mean it's like there is an easy option out of here but it never crossed my mind to to do it but i can just remember thinking of that road thinking the cars move fast there i mean if you wanted to it's more like if you wanted to yeah so it crosses your mind yeah it crosses your mind but it doesn't register yeah if that makes sense yeah and it's only you know throughout these few years when you start to reflect back on on who you are and what you've been through you start to go bloody hell and actually maybe i was thinking like that at a young age so um but then again you know who i am i you know i'm honest with myself i'm honest with my demons i'm honest with with who i am and ultimately i'm i'm honest with um with knowing that we're not perfect you know a lot of people and you've described it there they never make they never admit their demons to themself and what ends up happening is those demons run the show but from the back room absolutely and you know i guess you see that a lot with people that have come back from war as well because they don't get the uh the support they need but i see it during war yeah i see people level-headed intelligent soldiers lose their head on the battlefield come running past you doing things that you think wow where the hell did that come from you look into their eyes and there's [ __ ] nothing there nothing there and then boom they flip out and you're like do you realize what you just done like like you know it's you know those demons are [ __ ] strong they're there how do you address them you have to exercise them and you know the way i exercise my demons is by getting like-minded similar people in the same room in a safe environment and i might drink myself into oblivion till three four in the morning you know chatting about what we've done chatting about old times chatting about who we are and then boom i'm done for six months you know i've i've released those demons when you you know intoxicate yourself with alcohol it you know it allows you to talk and i'm not saying go out there and do that but that's just my way of coming from a drinking culture i.e the military a drinking and a fighting culture that's the way that we deal with things and for now now it might be a blowout where you know i go out and you know i'll have a nice meal and you know we'll have a few glasses of wine you know we'll be in a private room and we we shoot the [ __ ] and you know just talk about whatever we need to talk about whatever's on your mind but also physically i exercise my demons physically you know i put myself in horrendous situations in order to fight against myself um everest is a prime example of what's gonna say um you know i didn't have to go up during the storms i you know if i was the normal sensible person i would have went up after that storm went so just for context you you decided to climb mount everest with a buddy of yours at probably the worst possible time and you got into a little bit of a predicament up there yeah exactly that yeah um to say the least yeah but it's one of those where i didn't just want to walk up on a nice sunny day you know and and gain nothing from that experience what what why though like why are you voluntarily putting yourself through chaos and what anyone else would perceive to be agony why are you choosing that that's me exercising my demons really that's me you know pushing myself to that limit that's me having tasted that drug of living on that line of life and death and a lot of people think that drugs adrenaline but it's not i don't feel pumped i don't feel i feel ultimate peace so people find this bizarre but when i walk that line of life and death which i've done multiple times it's a pure feeling of euphoria it's not what you think where you feel pumped in your your eyes are red and you've got this aggression going through you and you have to get through this moment it's like life is so uncomplicated steve so uncomplicated you're either going to live or you're going to die all the [ __ ] all the complications of life that is implemented on you whether that's through government whether that's through work whether that's true family all of that goes and you are left with the most purest form of life and it's so uncomplicated that it's so euphoric it's so peaceful and when you hear of world war one and world war ii poets that are writing poems in trenches people are like how the hell are they writing poems in trenches i understand that feeling because life is so uncomplicated it's so pure it's so peaceful that they're writing with no stresses no complications no [ __ ] it's just it's coming from the purest form of life of i'm either going to live or i'm going to die and it's that feeling that i chase i chase that feeling well to want that moment of peace pure and utter peace for 10 15 minutes that drug i chase and that's crossing those boundaries crossing those lines crossing any limitations to the edge of life you take that step you're gone you go over that edge you know you're gonna feel it you're gonna feel alive you're gonna feel everything that you need that you need out of life um but for me that's exercising my demons so whether i do it psychologically where i'm putting myself in situations that i'm saying stuff that i believe in that i value that as a message and it's being contradicted or whether i'm pushing myself to a physical limit or putting myself in a in a physical situation which is uncomprehendable to to the to the everyday man or woman but it's because i've tasted it i've had the misfortune i've had the burden of tasting that drug and will it be the end of me i can't say that for sure i can't say that it won't i can't say that you know i've never put myself in these situations again because i find myself constantly doing it but for me that is exercising my demons and everyone's demons are different everyone's situation is different everyone's emotions are different everyone's dna is different but that's me exercising my demons quick one starting from the minute the lockdown is lifted we're gonna start bringing in some of our subscribers to watch how this podcast is produced behind the scenes means you get to meet the guests meet myself and see how we put all of this together if you want that to be you all you've got to do hit the subscribe button what what are the other if any moments from your early years that went into shaping the man you became was there anything else because i i hear you in your books and in your writing and your interviews continue to cite that that that sort of trauma with your father and your stepfather then coming in and and being the way that he was but there was was there anything up leading until you know your twenties that you cite as being pivotal and who you became yeah when i joined the british military i joined the army at the age of 16. i'm just going on to 17. and i came from a background of french culture you know i'd go out and drink coffee when i was 14 play bowling when i was 15. you know and all of a sudden i get thrown into a male dominant organization um the culture drinking fighting you fit in or you [ __ ] off it's as simple as that so what do you do you try and fit in but when you try and put a a round peg into a square hole you know you're going to get stuck and you either stay stuck okay you and you go around pleasing everyone else or you pull yourself out of that situation and that's ultimately what i've done with the army i spent four years in the army then left because of that situation it wasn't me i wasn't this aggressive young lad that loved drinking i'd never used to drink i was always polite always respectful i'd walk past someone i'd tip my hat you know in france you said bonjour and you know you just have a little chat you do that in england when when i was 16 17 walking past someone nodding and they're like what the [ __ ] are you looking at no it used to shock me and i used to think i'm only saying hi mate what you know and that was a pivotal four years in my life where i thought to myself can i fit in to this uk culture um or i can pull myself out of it and for the first four years i found myself fitting in and i found myself being good at drinking i found myself being good at fighting i found myself being good at being a [ __ ] [ __ ] you know because that's what i needed to be to fit in so again those were demons that i discovered along the way that i found that i was good at so would i let anyone take the piss out of me anymore you bet no because you're going to get you're going to get good hiding you know would i would i go out and and drink and fit in yeah of course of course i would you know hey one of the lads i want to fit in i mean i'm so i'm so far detached from all of that but if i'm this young polite respectful sort of multiculturaled individual then that's gonna be a more of a hindrance moving forward in in what i need to do especially in the military then it is uh a benefit so you find yourself turning into this person i can just remember i was about 21 and i went to macedonia and i worked with the french foreign legion out there because i speak fluent french and i worked with the french friend legion a bit and i saw how they were they're very very mature very sort of you know going back to that french culture you know they're all family orientated very i thought to myself wow this is this is who i am and when i got back off that tour i can just remember going to the squadron bar i was in nine parachute squadron wall engineers going to the squadron bar we've just done a six-month tour i'm going to the squadron bar and i remember walking in there and i remember seeing someone um a staff sergeant probably about 35 36 you know i'm a young 20 21 year old drinking from a a boot for an old desert boot right and he's drinking piss being drinking piss from my boot and i can just remember looking at him thinking if i continue the way that i'm going that's going to be me in 15 years time and it scared the hell out of me i can remember just thinking i've got to get the hell out of here i walked out of that bar and the next day i put my notice in i was like that this is not who i am this is not you know i've gained more demons from this four years than i have any friends any benefits from it and that was a pivotal point that was a pivotal point in my life where i thought to myself wow you know i can either go i can have a change in such a way and just be stuck in this square hole or i can pull myself out rebuild on the foundations that i have of knowing that i'm a good person and you and from there you handed in your notice and what happened next from there i handed him my notice and and i left and um i found that in civvie street i was acting the person that i never wanted to be in the military right but i'd found that that had followed me that that had taken charge of me give me be specific those demons that um those demons that had sort of identified themselves within that four years were running the show so when i got out i joined the metropolitan police and i was acting like a proper squaddie right now going out drinking every night you know cheating on my exams um drink driving you know i got all the way through training a couple of weeks ago a couple of weeks to go passed all the tests i got caught drink driving boom kicked out the um kicked out the met um out the training um in hendon and but it didn't bother me i was like yeah you know once a soldier always a soldier and i was living in the past and being someone who completely wasn't me but who had control of me and then getting into into the street life you know i got into the street life where you know fighting not gangs not games but that that social circle where you know you have to uphold a reputation where you and the one thing that you know well i'll say the one thing but the thing i was good at that fitted me is that was a good scrapper i knew i know how to scrap i know how to drink and how to fight but you find yourself reverting back to the person who you never wanted to be and i suppose that was the defense mechanism i knew that that worked in the uk i'd never tried and tested anything else as soon as i came over to the uk straight into the military again now i spent 10 12 years in france before that then boom straight over into into the british culture and i thought that that's how you acted i never knew what silly street was about because um i never i was never in it so um it took me a a good couple of years again to realize what saved you what pulled you out of the job there's one moment that saved me um i refused to sign on i refuse to take any any help from the government same um and i can remember my auntie i was living with my auntie at the time and you've got you know you've got no money what are you going to do i said well i'm going to go down to the job center why won't you just sign on you know until you find a job i'm like no that was proud i was like no i've never taken a penny off the government i thought now i'm going to go to the job center i remember walking into the job center walking up the stairs walking into the job center and i had my red book and the red book when you leave the military it's got all your all your qualifications military qualifications all your credentials and i walked into the job center and the guy obviously recognized the books they'd probably have hundreds of people going there you know a year and he said oh mate you're x military on yourself yeah he said come to the desk he sat down with me and he opened up my book and he started reading my book and he looked up at me and he said why did you leave the military and before i could answer i was going to say something back and he said i have hundreds of these come across my desk and they said this is one of the best reports i've ever read he said so my advice to you as he slammed the book shot he went went go back into that space and i remember just sitting there um i was 22 sitting down and thinking mike okay he's gonna offer me a job now and he just handed me the book and called over the next person and i was just like i'm picking up a bit to myself guys you know but obviously there's there's all military qualifications there's nothing for me out there apart from to empty bins or whatever it may be and i remember taking the book and as i walked down the steps of the job center i sat down halfway down on the steps and i had a train ticket in my pocket and probably about a couple of quid loose change that's that was my life um this was at the age of 22 23 maybe and um and i can just remember thinking to myself right why the hell are you sat skin nothing in your life apart from what you the clothes that you're wearing and what's in your pockets jobless and then a moment of clarity just hit me it's almost as if i had an out of body experience and i was looking back at the boys sitting on the step and i just remember thinking to myself right i'll tell you why it's because you're pretending to be someone else you're lying to yourself therefore you're living a lie you're you know you think you're better than everyone else you know you've got this reputation that you want to uphold that's not you um you're just you're just a shadow of who you really are you're not you know who the hell do you think you are because the person that i'm looking at you know almost looking in the mirror the person that i'm looking at is exactly where you should be sat on a [ __ ] step jobless with nothing because this isn't you and if you want to live in the shadow if you want to stay stuck in that hole in that square hole then keep lying to yourself and keep living a lie and that moment i'll always go back to that moment whenever i get a bit above myself or a bit too big for my boots i always go back to that moment where i ripped myself apart because it freed me as an individual and i promise you this and it's not cliche this isn't some kind of [ __ ] [ __ ] story that i'm telling you it freed me as an individual because i can remember remember standing up on them steps feeling like a new man because i just identified who i was this isn't you get that out your life get out of your life get that out of your life be you and i had those foundations to fall back on because i knew who i was ultimately but it was discovered and and yeah ego covered with so much [ __ ] covered with so much complications that i'd implemented on myself and when i got rid of it all i was just like that you know what i was good at the military i've got best recruit best pt when i was in the army you know what i'm gonna do i love that lifestyle but it's just around the wrong people i was in the wrong regiment you know i'm gonna rejoin the military but i'm going to be a team player i'm going to be myself i'm going to be this respectful gentleman hard worker that i know that i am which i mean i'm not going to go out boozing i'm not going to go out fighting i'm not going to try and fit in you know if they don't accept me for who i am then so be it the military obviously isn't for me i joined the royal marines i went straight down the careers office straight down the careers office and joined the royal marines and within a couple of months because of my previous um military uh history um i got him very quick and within a couple of months i found myself going through royal marine training and when i passed out of war marine training i got um awarded with best recruit which is the king's badge and i can just remember thinking to myself right and you've been here before you know you've got best recruit best pt you know you rested on your laurels went to your unit didn't really fit in you're in the same position now now you can either use this as a positive and push forward and and you know go on to achieve great things or you can try and fit in booze fight be a be a camp hero you know a pub soldier and just be back to square one where you was five six seven years ago there's something and i want to carry on from that story but just going back to that i find it super fascinating that you're sat on those stairs and at a moment when your ego kind of dissolves because of the circumstances you find yourself in um you're actually able then to go and pursue your true self and i find you know i had someone sat in this chair previously and he's the biggest investor in the world in psychedelics and one of the things that he talks about with psychedelics is it what it does is it strips back the [ __ ] your ego the the identity you've been living to please society and what's left is like who you actually are and it's and it's so funny that so many of the guests i speak to and some of the psychologists i've spoken to talk about in order to like find your happiness and pursue your true self you have to get rid of that [ __ ] and what i'm what i was hearing when you were saying that is you know you'd you'd create this reputation an identity for yourself which actually was leading you astray but it was helping you survive in those circles absolutely and this tough tough decision to say do you know i'm going to break out that circle leave that identity behind throw myself into an uncertain moment and go in pursuit of like who i actually am and everybody faces that in their life you know as a kid growing up in devon in a school of 1500 white kids pretending that i liked indie music and pretending i was to fit in and survive yeah and i i left the city because i deep down in my heart i didn't resonate with anybody but i was in that small town city surrounded by 1500 white kids that liked the kooks yeah and then 18 i was like i'm out here i'm gonna go be steve move to manchester you know and i dropped and i started to and i think everybody in their life regardless of what walk of life you you face that decision and either you've realized that you're living an identity or a life untrue to yourself and you've gone on the journey to go find yourself or right now as you're listening to this you are and you'll know it yeah because the words that you've described there will ring true so that completely i completely understand that and that makes complete sense to me and one of the things that i say um is the most courageous thing you can do above all bravery is to be honest with yourself why is that so hard these days i had one day last week was actually sunday where i didn't have my heel and i had a little bit of junk food and i don't know what it is but i think my body has got used to eating clean food because for the next three days i felt i still kind of feel what day we are now tuesday i still kind of feel crap from the junk food that i i just had one drunk meal i had this junk meal right i still feel crap now i don't know what it is i think my body has genuinely got used to eating good food so the minute now that i put in something that is bad for me my body goes steve what are you doing um and i felt bad for the last two days and i've returned to huell and i feel good again this is just an anecdotal story but i said this to my pa last night i said i for some reason having now transitioned to a really good diet on your any sort of um dabble with the the stuff that i used to eat is more sort of alarming to my body and i notice it way more than i ever had so yeah you know it's one thing having a podcast sponsor that pays you money but it's another thing having a podcast sponsor who you genuinely believe can help people change their lives for the better one of the things that i say um is the most courageous thing you can do above all bravery is to be honest with yourself why is that so hard these days you know people say to me and you know what's the bravest thing you've ever done and i always talk about the story of the job center steps because that took courage that took balls that that's bravery right there you know i've been in rooms where bullets are flying over my head i've kicked doors down and you know i've taken i've saved life it's like that's not being brave that's just me being extremely good at my job and loving what i do you know it's not there's nothing to do with bravery you know bravery is almost forced upon you but when you decide to step into the arena when you decide to step into that and go right i'm going to face this and put that mirror on yourself ultimately facing yourself that is the hardest but most liberating thing i've ever done and people shy away from that and they live in the void they live this life where they're just living the void i call it and say you're on autopilot because you're lying to yourself and it's pretty simple therefore you're going to live a lie i don't care it's i'm not the archbishop of canterbury you know i'm like i'm not a rocket scientist it's just simple science you know if you lie to yourself guess what you're going to live a lie um but standing in a mirror standing in the mirror and ripping yourself apart does take away all the [ __ ] and all the complications and it frees you as an individual but it's you have to do it on a regular basis you can't just go i've done it once so here we go i've found myself this is who i am because hopefully you're constantly changing you're constantly evolving you're constantly um adapting your mindset you know that's what evolution is about you know the the world is designed to to you know is is it evolutionizes and we are designed to do exactly the same and the moment that you you're not honest with yourself this game over for you it's like it's like you do you just want to be just that person you know like a lot of people say to me and you know i've remember you remember me from the military i'm like yeah yeah yeah they got [ __ ] i you've changed a lot you've changed i'm like that i haven't seen you for 10 years i hope i've changed and i say to them you haven't that's why you're still just that guy that's why i'm at middleton and you're still just that guy is because of course i've changed i'd like to think in another 10 years time when you see me that i've changed again because if i haven't i'm doing something wrong and that doing something wrong is not being honest with myself and it all goes back to you as an individual no one can do that for you no one can do that for you and i say to every everyone everything starts with you and it's it's so true if you don't want to change nothing will change around you you know if you don't want to be honest with yourself well guess what you're lying to yourself it's a complete opposite therefore you're living a lie it's like you have to do this on a on a on a weekly on a monthly basis any time an obstacle was thrown in front of you you couldn't fall back on right to be honest with yourself be honest with who you are be honest with with with you you know with how you tackle things and and and don't lie to yourself the cost of being yourself and being honest with yourself is it seemingly increasing in this day and age and you know i find it i think that's a really really valid point one that i hadn't i didn't think expressed properly which is you had that reflective moment when you sat on those stairs where you say [ __ ] it we're gonna start being honest with ourselves but then especially as you get more successful you know in your media career and everything else the forces at play trying to get you to not be honest with yourself get greater and greater and this is this crazy sort of i don't know paradox or whatever we see in society at the moment which is you being honest with yourself is the reason you're sat here it's the reason you're at middleton yeah but and that's what's made you go explode right but then the higher you get it's like i don't know you know the the resistance for you not to be yourself becomes greater because now you've got now you're more of a target right hard [ __ ] hard [ __ ] life to live do you know what i've been witness of it you know the council culture the um don't say that ant because you will lose this book deal you will lose that media career you will lose that production and witness of it right now you know um i hear it probably on a weekly basis um but then that's that square peg round hole it's like no i don't you know it's it's every time i think about that and i always have two principles with everything that i do is don't go out to offend so i don't say things to offend people therefore they choose to be offended i don't say things to offend people i just say things what i think is right was what served me um good in my experiences and my career my mindset and the second thing is you know don't don't do things maliciously so first of all don't go out it's it's verbal and also actions you know don't don't do things maliciously because then ultimately yeah you're going to have a backlash you're going to have a reaction to to to what you've done um so that's exactly what i do i don't go out to offend but i go out to tell the truth but i also go out to seek the truth you know and i go out to seeking the truth again everything starts with you and with who i am it's dangerous and it's it's it's definitely in the social media area it's dangerous it is dangerous but hopefully you get past that that stage of people realizing that actually this is ant he's not been any different he's not you know voiced anything different he's not tried to fit into a media agenda he's not trying to try to blag anyone he's not being fake this is who aunt middleton is and he will always be like that regardless yeah regardless but then there's that platform of not reaching that level quite yet and then everything descending upon you um and i and unfortunately there's a lot of people out there that are scared to say what they truly feel are scared to voice their opinions uh scared to you know voice their values because ultimately it takes food off the table it's a career stopper when your career stops guess what suffers after that your family and then when that when that suffers guess what there's not much out there for you you have to rebuild again well all those 10 15 20 years career that you've you've built all for that one moment is it worth it no so what do you do keep quiet what'd you do don't do anything just say what they want you to say and do what they want you to do that doesn't [ __ ] rub with me that's a sore point with me you know you try and you try and make me someone that i'm that i'm not like i've been made someone them than i'm that i'm not you're probably gonna get even you feel gonna get the worst out of me even more so because everything comes back around to who you truly are they're trying to control you yeah it's a controlling measure and it's like listen i've i've let people control my life i've let situations control my life and it's i've ended up psychologically not physically psychologically on that brink of questioning who the [ __ ] who the [ __ ] am i who am i that's what i question and the moment i start questioning who am i then i know that project isn't for me i know that that that sponsor isn't for me i know that that tv um channel or that tv production isn't for me because the moment that comes into question and it's like you don't probably don't get who i am you probably don't understand who i am you probably haven't done your homework with who i am do i fit into your agenda and it's like if you don't fit into one agenda you get bounced boom straight across to the opposite side right it's like listen i don't belong on that side it's just cause i don't believe in in this this side doesn't mean i belong on that side yeah i'm i belong in the middle you know people say you are you on the left you're on the right i'm like i'm not on the left or right i'm in the middle i'm in the middle you say slightly something that goes against this agenda then again you just get bounced straight to the other side the right road i don't recognize you the left won't recognize you so there's who are your enemies of both yeah but it's it's and it's a dangerous place to live in this is it's it's it it's it's a sad state of affairs a real sad sad um sad state of affairs and you know just because your values and your views are different doesn't mean my message isn't isn't the same you know my message everything that i do is about positivity it's about mindset it's about bringing people together you look at sas who dares wins what does it do makes people realize what they're capable of makes them find themselves it brings people together brings families together you know mutiny teamwork brings people together escape you know straight talking being honest and open and and it makes it makes you feel good it brings you together it unites people because they can be open and honest with themselves and therefore they know what they're capable of self belief starts to kick in and they feel good about it's bringing people together right and that is you'd be inhumane really to to not think like that to not want to help people out to not want to so the message is is is always the same but it's this bit in the middle right don't you ever get pushed to one side you can't have this sort of in the middle opinion of well actually my values are the same as yours you know i'm all about positive change yeah okay so what why are you saying my values don't fit with yours because i'm about positive change look at my message for the last five six years since i've been in the media it's positive change unity look at what i do everything i do whether it's my books my tours my tv programs everything is about bringing people together bringing the best out of people so just because this in-between bit i my views are different and mine are probably truthful which people don't want to hear the truth it's like right bounce off to one side and then and then you start to get cancelled but what's the answer though like so i i you know i hear we've heard pierce morgan talk a lot about this as well and other people talk about how you know if you don't perfectly fit the the views or the perfect hashtag of the of the left or whatever then um you're basically being cancelled in culture and i i genuinely this is a [ __ ] probably the most genuine question i've ever asked in this podcast because it's one that i'm thinking about all the time is i also see this happening my views don't always fit the left or the right and sometimes like in the black lives matter moment i posted on my instagram saying it was actually my best performing post of all time i said because there was this whole narrative around like silence is violence and if you're not saying anything then you're a racist i did a post saying like that's obviously [ __ ] yeah as i said it's unpopular black opinion if someone doesn't post a black square on their instagram doesn't make them a racist people process things in completely different in fact the most unnatural reaction to trauma is to take to social media so like and that absolutely it was it was it didn't fit the like silences violence narrative and and my ability and i like of course that's [ __ ] true like i mean it doesn't it doesn't fit i understand right but it's no one not one individual in the millions and millions of views that that posted could tell me there was one slide in that nine that was they disagreed with but it was the feeling that i wasn't wearing the football kit of the of the left that made some people go you're an awful person to sleep and then i'd go why they'd go yeah yeah exactly you see their minds ticking and ticking you're like tell me tell me what's wrong with the post they go oh you know what sorry yeah and and i i i think well i'm i know i'm not going to change so when i look into my future i go at some point i'm going to get cancelled because my brand is building i've got some stuff coming up on in the media and i'm thinking i know i'm not going to change so what's the answer here like i'm always going to and i know that it's getting more is the answer this is why you're here yeah i know it's like it's like it's like what the answer is to be true to who you are yeah and just take the intention and it's like it's you know that's the one thing i've always fall back on is just knowing you know if you're an idiot you know if you're irritating people you know if you're not a good person and then ultimately you know you're going to get what's coming to you and you probably deserve it but i know that i'm a good person i know my foundations i'm polite and respectful you know i don't go out to offend ever go out to offend i hate confrontation because of the way that i know that i can deal with confrontation it frightens me to get into that situation because i know what i'm capable of okay so i don't ever i'm over polite i'm over respectful because i think people should be treated like that now i like to be treated like that i wasn't treated like that when i started off in my army career and i know what it feels like okay and i never would never want anyone to to experience that so i'm over polite and i'm over respectful and i've always fall back on that i always look at myself in the mirror and i go and you're you i know i'm a good person and that are the foundations that i've built that's my foundations that's who i am okay so you can knock my bricks down i will but guess what i will keep building and building and building and you can knock it even if you knock them down to the foundations i can fall back on being true to myself and there's no more liberating steve liberating feeling than that of being true to who you are going do you know what i'm not going to fit into that agenda i'm not going to fit into that box i'm not going to squeeze myself in there to make myself feel uncomfortable for your agenda because that's not who i am would you rather lose at all yeah 100 because i've got my foundations i've got my foundations i will always build steve always build and this part of the building is so high now that can you cancel me crack on because i guarantee you i just keep building this side this side of this side decide because the people that know me know who i am and someone said this to me with all the stuff that's been going on lately um you know i've had some sponsors i've cancelled i've had some tv programs that i've kind of crack on but the people that by my side the sponsors and the channels and the production companies that by my side that have worked for me saying and we have the privilege of knowing you and that wrong accord to me though i'm like they have the privilege of knowing me and i think to myself wow you've got the privilege of knowing i've got the privilege of knowing myself because i know who i am and i'm glad i'm glad i gave you that privilege and it's not being big headed i'm glad i gave you that privilege of knowing me because you know that this is just a storm of words you know that this is just media hype you know this is just fake news you know this isn't real you know yeah i've maybe got a little bit of a fiery side to me but you know you're getting that with me you know i'm rough around the edges so yeah and i'm happy to you know to to to cut a few of the edges but those edges are still going to be there do you know what i mean so when they said that to me and it's something that will stick with me forever and it's from a very very good sponsor you know um very much to do with my books and i can just and i remember sitting back and just taking that breath and going keep doing what you're doing then you're doing the right thing and then this last week you know so many doors have opened production companies calling me channels calling me um you know and you hear about it you hear about oh you know you get cancelled then that's your career done and but then you've got your peers morgan's you've got your your jeremy clarkson's and now you've got your aunt middleton's okay and it just goes to show that i'm doing the right thing and that actually yeah i'm not gonna fit i'm not gonna be comfortable with with everyone and i'm not gonna be their cup of tea well that's fine because guess what i don't want to work with you if i get questioned one little bit about my who i am like i said before if i get questioned one little bit about who i am by any brands any sponsors any channels then i will not work with them i will say listen thank you very much it's obviously you know not the right match um you go on and do your thing and i'll go on and do my thing because i will always go on and do my thing and that building can completely drop to the foundations but when you're honest with yourself and you know who you are those foundations are solid you will always have something to build from but when you're not honest with yourself and everything comes crumbling down and you have no foundations to fall on you're [ __ ] that's when you're in trouble that's when you start to go well i won't say that i won't act like this i won't do this and i won't do that and that's when you become someone else that's when you become fake to who you are and guess what desperate times then you're like a wounded animal and guess what you're probably going to be right at the back of the pack for the rest of your life the psychological impact of living a life that isn't true to yourself and i mean this is why people have these like midlife crises when they've even in like the professional world where they've you know their mum and dad have told them to go and be a whatever a banker or a lawyer they don't want to be they want to be a [ __ ] dancer or whatever and then they get mid-life crisis and you look at throughout psychology i talk about this a little bit my book you know if you look at certain communities like the lgbtq community their suicide rates are so so high amongst those groups because a lot of them have been oppressed in a way where they can't live their true life they can't be their identity so they've had to live a lie that's live a fake life and then you see suicide rates go up because that is a form of torture and this is when i asked you the question about you know would you rather lose at all um one would one would actually maybe even if i question myself say well what are you losing yeah if you're losing tv shows and you're losing things that aren't true to yourself is it a loss you know it's not a loss because you will always find something that fits you dude i mean if you have the passion and the drive and the ambition and the positivity of knowing who you are and ultimately the world is your oyster it's like you know people have this impression of me that i'm this hard-faced drill sergeant non-accepting person i am the complete opposite go and be the [ __ ] you want to be that's my message if that's what then don't let anyone force you into into saying anything doing anything or being anyone else be yourself but this is the side that people don't see of you and this but this is my personal side steve i people see what they want to see the media will write what they want to write they will they will make you they will make you out to be who they want you to be but you can't put all of that into a hashtag you've got to characterize yourself in 10 letters yeah and this is the problem with with issues that are complex and nuanced and there's different layers and you if it doesn't fit into a hashtag then and this is the football team analogy as well quick interjection before we get back to the podcast just want to say that as you know because i've talked about it a few times on this podcast i'm probably one of the biggest users in the world of a website called fiverr.com f i v e r r dot com i use it for everything whether it's my podcast or whether it's my personal brand content whether it's my business or other projects that i'm doing and this week i've used it again i've used it to make a website called katana which is my investment company people don't know this my old company was called social chain and katana or katana is the italian word for chain that's the inspiration keep that to yourself um but it's just another example of how you can use fiverr to help you expand your capabilities as an entrepreneur as a content creator and i've managed to get a website up for my investment company katana in the spa