Web Development Advice - Interview with Dev Tips

Key Takeaways

hey everybody uh we have a super cool video for you today I have a guest here Travis neelen with Dev tips and we're going to be talking about how to get started in web development from the perspective of somebody who's rocking it in in the industry uh Travis has a great YouTube channel that you have to check out called devtips uh it focuses on the whole world to web development uh Travis why don't you introduce yourself real quick and just tell us about your channel real fast oh great um thanks well first of all thanks for having me on on your Channel I'm a big fan of of learn code academy I've been watching it for a while so uh so thanks for that uh Dev tips is is something that I've been pouring my nights and weekends in into lately and it's a YouTube channel similar to yours um it may be a little bit more front Endy less JavaScript uh so you know the first the first videos I made were like HTML 5 Basics like talking about the history of HTML 5 where did it come from why do we need it and going all the way up now we're talking about a lot of like layout in CSS and we talk about SAS a lot but we also talk about a lot of um like The Human Side of of the industry right so I go to meetups and I interview people and I talk to them about you know what do they do to remain you know inspired or or uh you know I went to a a Meetup uh at Yahoo the other day and I talked to Dan cedarholm who's the creator or the co-founder of dribble and and we talked about like like giving back to the the community and and why to do that and stuff so so it it covers like a a wide spectrum of things it's mostly just like whatever I feel interested in at the at the moment um which is actually why we started talking you know I I'm I'm interested in what you were doing and I wanted to to share that with my audience and now you've invited me to come on your channel which is really cool yeah so just in case uh you point out a good thing we're doing a two-part video actually kind of covering two different sides of this we've got a video where he's interviewing me on his channel and uh we've got got some really questions uh pointed uh for Travis that you're going to want to hear the answers to if you're starting off the web development process uh and you're you're wanting to learn how to get into that World um we're really going to pick his brain here for this video um and so I guess you just want to get into it yeah yeah let's just get started okay sweet Okay so I guess my first question would be let's say I'm somebody that I'm I'm either just now starting off or then learning web development because I've already kind of I think this is the good industry for me what's the first thing you're going to do what's the first thing you're going to learn and why um like technically like what you should start learning or or like yeah like let's say I or how start learning oh good question uh let's let's go both I mean what would you start learning and and and how would you start learning it yeah okay so so content wise or yeah the learning the content wise I mean I'm I'm I'm very very front-end um when it comes to like the work that I do professionally and the stuff that I teach so my inclination would be to to learn HTML in and out and learn CSS in and out and learn how how JavaScript can enhance these two components of of a of a standard web page I think like if you're going to learn uh the stuff that that you teach will is is very very um Cutting Edge in terms of like tooling and workflow and stuff and to even understand those things like like to even buy a ticket to the amusement park of Will's Channel you have to understand what HTML is and how CSS properties will affect those HTML elements so my uh inclination would be to you know to start there to start at the very BAS Basics well yeah and that's uh if if you're if you're kind of subscribing to this Channel and you're learning that process you're really going to benefit from watching the dev tips Channel just just to make sure I say it there's a reason we're doing this because you'll love it um so so say say you're learning HTML CSS is it better to stick to just HTML for a while and then go CSS is it better to to learn them all at the same time does it depend on your personality hard yeah that's a hard question for me to answer because when I learned HTML there was no CSS oh wow and so I don't have you know I don't have that experience I mean somebody coming into the industry right now is going to have a bigger book to read and what I mean by that is they have a lot more to learn initially than I did when I came to it it was like just this weird thing that I was doing in my you know in in my Mom's computer and you know I was learning what is a paragraph tag and I had to figure that out and that was kind of it you know like I read I read a chapter in a book and I kind of understood the whole thing but like today there's so because you know like the like CSS is growing Leaps and Bounds every year right like if you learned CSS completely two years ago and then closed your eyes for two years and then looked at it again it would be a different Beast altogether right now yeah now do you see that as good or bad for a new person or or a mixed bag well I could see how it would be difficult I mean it it's raising the bar um for you know to sorry it's raising um the entry level right it uh what am I what am I trying to say here yeah that barrier entry is is a little tougher than barrier entry that's the word yeah it's raising the barrier to entry right so it's harder to get started but but I think that it's more exciting than it's ever been so the payoff is going to be a lot greater so when I first started I made this like you know these horrible things that are like the O blight on the internet and uh yeah they were just so pathetic and um you know and and but that but it wasn't because I sucked and it was because I sucked okay it was because I sucked but it was also because the internet sucked like you couldn't make awesome things back then but now you can right the internet is awesome now and it it'll it'll continue to scale and get even more and more awesome but the point is that like it's it's possible for somebody in their bedroom and you know to read a book or or read a few blogs or or watch a few videos on YouTube and learn some things that are incredible and that that would make me drool when I was first starting right yeah so I think it is harder but the payoff is greater gotcha so are there are there any resources out there where there's some guys that are are giving tips on what this kind of like more intermediate Advanced CSS looks like I because from this I mean from from the sound of things I mean just so you guys know Travis is definitely like super super awesome at CSS I I tend to specialize more in JavaScript um and so is there if I'm if I'm learning CSS what resources are are like these are the right ones to be looking at okay so CSS is very Broad in in what it can do and what it's for um but there are some very fundamental principles to understand right and um uh I hope this is not too self you know pluggy but I'll go I did make a um a a video series like I think it's nine or seven or nine videos about CSS Basics and and I'll give the link you to you will so you can put this in the show notes or the the comment or the whatever below the D below and um it's it's about like we're starting at the very beginning what is CSS how does it actually interact with HTML and what is a block level element what is an inline element and and talking about like these very basic concept and then building from there going all the way up to how do you how do you install SAS and use that oh I mean that's got to be great because even the videos that I cover on CSS I'm I'm I'm focusing on hey let's let's go zero to 60 like right now so you can feel like you're doing something but I do not cover the detail that's very important to know yeah these were some of the first things I did and I felt that I needed to like explain them in order to do awesome like not I mean not that they're not awesome I think I think the fundamentals are really exciting personally um but I I felt like I needed to go over them in order to go into more like applicable skills in the in the job market today but so so they're very useful for people just starting out other resources that are not of my own um goodness I mean the the the Mozilla uh the mdn right the Milla developer networker what is it called the yeah mdn mdn I don't know what it stands for it's networ I just don't know the address add Yeah well yeah yeah so Mozilla whatever and find some stuff uh and then um I would also say stack Overflow is a great place to just ask questions and and they have like a a really searchable database of other people like you that have asked similar questions to you and what the answers have been so I mean this is stuff that even though I am considered a professional I've been working in the industry for years I'm still visiting these places I go to mdn and stack over all the time all Every Day I'm on stack Overflow yeah yes yes and there there's also one website in particular that's a like a Blog that I would recommend to anybody hand time over time and I have recommended it on my channel is css-tricks Doom was run by Chris coyer who is the one of the co-founders of codepen.io and uh I've been following Chris for years he's so good he's so good at teaching he's like so smart and he talks about the things things that I am very interested in which is front-end development and he he's branched out quite a bit over the years so even though his URL is CSS Dash tricks talks about you know JavaScript HTML he talks about tooling he talks about serving stuff he talks a lot about WordPress if you guys are interested in that he talks about like all these types of things and then if you go to Chris's products uh codepen.io that's a great place to um you know just see examples of things and and see how like if you want to see what the the what the internet is thinking about itself that's where you should go you should go to codepen to see what the internet thinks about itself in terms of um New Tricks it can do and and fancy new clothes that it can wear right that's you yeah and then there's GitHub so always look at GitHub because there you are I got a trick question for you it's something people ask me a lot and I don't really know that I know how to answer but you might is they say how long will it take me uh let's say two hours a day every night of the week five days a week um two hours a day to learn this stuff to where I could get my first job is there any kind of Benchmark have you seen people make that journey and do you have any kind of guess it's okay if you don't I'm not super sure man I you know what just I'm kind of it's hard for me to like s i I feel like I'm giving you bad questions or giving you bad answers like you you asked um you know it should you learn it all at once and and you know I have a bad answer because I I came into it at a different time than it is right now right so in in in a similar way like I'm a professional designer I'm a product designer I'm not I'm not even an engineer and I learned how to develop stuff because I wanted my designs to live and so my first clients and my first the first people who paid me to code I'd been coding a long time making and Publishing a long before they were even paying me to do it and and now I design professionally and I code professionally I do both at my current job um so so but your question is how long would it take somebody if they studied two hours a night every night and until they're ready to get their first job I think that that's the wrong question I think it's not about how long will it take me I think it's about how willing am I to be uncomfortable right if you're question that is that's it that that really is it yeah I I think and I know this just from speaking with you for a while will that you you like to dive in head first and to be uncomfortable and that's when you I mean I'm speaking for you but this is what I gather that you that's kind of like how you learn and Thrive you learn to love it I mean that's kind of the joy of web development yes and I can I can unequivocally say every every job every employment that I've had and I've been sitting in the meetings I'm looking around the tables and I think what am I doing here this is across the board right I I didn't I didn't go to school I taught myself and I sit at I sit at the table with mass people with master's degrees double Masters and that have gone to Stanford and like like people that are like seriously legit doctors I've worked with like people with double phds and in computer human computer interactions and Science and and they they do all these really interesting you know stuff I have no idea what they're doing and they're asking me questions about you know design or or or simple CSS stuff that they leaped right over right so it's not about when are you ready technically it's about when are you ready emotionally to be afraid and to be UNC comfortable and um to just when are you ready to do it that's it man great answer to that question because when the pressure's on you got to know that that at the end of the day if you don't know what to do you're gonna go find out what to do you're gonna ask a question on stack Overflow Google for two hours you're gonna find the answer if you don't have it and that's yeah yes if you if you ask me a question that you can easily Google I'll be upset with you and and that that's just like why are youing web development that's just the nature of like I mean if you if you ask my if you ask that in the comments on my channel I'm actually presenting myself as a learning source so that's perfectly fine but professionally if you come over to my desk and ask me something that you can easily find out um it'll I'll I'll I won't say it to your face but I'll think a little less of you that's that's for sure um do you Google for a living as a developer I mean that's just what you do you do yes yes Google is your very best friend as a developer and and like and stress that you don't know the answer when somebody asks you is also your best friend so and and there are there are a few ways though to get ready for that okay um I would surround your surround myself with people who support you right for me it was was my family my wife she believed in in me at a time when I didn't believe in myself and and um there there was a moment in my life when I when I transitioned from uh I I used to be a Salesman I sold electronic I I sold televisions right on a sales floor you would go into a place and I would be like hey let me tell you about some stuff and and and I would oh and design and I would love design and read about design and think about design all day but I would make money by doing something I didn't love at all and I it was because I was afraid and I didn't believe in myself and Meanwhile my my wife is is always saying hey you know take your time and and and be comfortable but I believe in you and and I think that like like that having somebody there to to support me while I did really scary things um was was was pretty instrumental in um in in making that transition another thing is not just surrounding yourself with people who support you emotionally uh but who who will support you technically and support you in your skills right so I'm talking about a mentor yeah so finding a mentor is really important to to have somebody who is uh generally interested in your well-being uh personally and that you can talk to and express you know your your frustrations or your excitements with u professionally and having this person to guide you along the way is is really important um I never had that kind of one existential person but in through through like making deep relationships with people that I've worked with or people that I've known that that's kind of come about in a roundabout way and and now uh and now uh leading to the third one that I would recommend in order to learn and grow in this industry is to um this is going to sound really pretentious and dumb but I would I would pack your bags and move I would go to somewhere that respects this industry no that's huge that actually really is huge um I now for me that was that was moving to Oakland California and then across the bay into San Francisco that was when things went from from you know zero to 90 and it was incredible as soon as I could put San Francisco this is the weirdest thing and it's probably I'm sorry to say this but this is also true as soon as I put San Francisco on my resume job offers every day wow like it it's it's it's it's not even fair to people who are not here it's it's really not and um this is a this is a sad truth if you don't feel comfortable with picking up your your belongings and moving or if you're stuck some some place that but but this San Francisco is not the only place of course right there are other places that respect what we do right New York Atlanta Boston Houston Orlando strangely Orlando Orlando yeah yeah Chicago Austin Texas um uh they're they're and worldwide too right there's a lot of places Brazil is really popping off right now uh Mexico is pretty big um Singapore huge uh Philippines uh a Australia Germany is really big in Tech um a huge I'm sorry what's that Netherlands huge H yes yes absolutely so there's a lot of places where they where this kind of they're coming into this understanding that the things that we do are are are valid and worthwhile and uh valuable right so if you can surround yourself in a culture that values what you do and what you're trying to do you're not only going to learn and grow faster but you're going to receive uh remuneration you're going to be paid well to do what you do and it's going to increase your confidence it's going to increase your desire to learn and grow and and you're going to get better projects to work on that are more visible and that's going to increase your status in the community so great advice lot of stuff great advice that's huge yeah so before Before I Let You Go on this before we we say goodbye to tra till whenever um any any last words of advice towards people that are starting on this journey I really want to go for it yeah okay yes I do um now you may have heard some version of this advice before but it it's but it's so important to understand and so I'll just I'll just reiterate it you're not going to be as good as you want to be until you get all of the crap out and what I mean by that is that you have to make and make and make and make until the thing that you finally make is good you're going to make so much junk it's going to just be ugly and not work right and be horrible that nobody wants and you're going to make that for a very long time until you finally make something good so don't be afraid to make crap then don't get discouraged right let's say you have an exact amount of crap that you have to Wade through before you get to the good stuff and everybody has the same amount of crap that they have to get through if you work two hours a night every night you're going to get through it pretty fast that's just truth if you work three hours a night you're going to get through it faster right and that that's really the the the kind of um the recommendation that I have work fast and work hard and just like realize when you're new and you're learning that the stuff that you make is worthless it's worthless to other people but it's not to you it's going to be the Stepping Stones to making great things that's good and um and then when you finally start making those great things all of a sudden people are going to really want you and really want you to make great things for them and they're going to pay you a lot of money to do it which is nice but the main point is that you'll be finally making those things that you wanted to make the whole time because right now you can see it you have this vision of what you want to be and what you want to do and and you know who you want to be like but you can't do it because you suck you work so hard and then you don't suck it's just time it's 10,000 hours that's just it that's awesome man man great advice great great input I've actually learned several really cool things by listening to you um so man Travis thanks a ton for joining us today and fun his channel would they just type in Dev tips in and search on YouTube yeah if you search Dev tips it'll it'll work I'll try to give you a link as well so you can put it in your description of your video awesome or click my face awesome what or click on my face or click on the face we'll put we'll put an annotation on the face so awesome thanks so much Travis have a great day and we'll catch you all around on the internets all right take care that's it