#GLTHday | GLTHtable: GenerativeAI: What can Universities do?

hello everyone and welcome to this round table about generative Ai and universities how it will impact on the training and competences needed to become a lawyer organized by global legal techhub my name Isen Navaro and I am the director of the programs legal Tech legal Ops atad and today I will be your moderator we are in one of the most challenging and Changing Times in the legal sector with major Paradigm Shift Change in purchasing habits search for efficiency empowerment of the buyer and especially the impact of technology but how do we train our young peoples to be lawyers we need to evolve the way that we educate them a lawyer navigate in complex Landscapes where the emergence of the generative artificial intelligence is recently taking place in my opinion this can have a strong impact on the way we train young people law schools are Crossroads they are preparing aspiring lawyers for a future with generative AI will play a major role but is not yet clear how exactly this technology would transform the legal profession but we need to be prepared and acquire the right competences to adapt in response to this evolving landscape law schools are taking proactive steps they are crafting Innovative curricula and embracing novel teaching methodologies designed to equip a students for a world where AI will be a great impact some have even begun talking about creating supporting environments for students who are struggling to adapt to the rise of the AI to shed light on these critical developments our panel will delve in some burning questions how can law schools best equip students for a future where generative AI is deeply integrated into legal practice what strategies can law schools employ to strike a balance between harnessing the potential Vantage of generative Ai and mitigating associate is how can law schools Empower students to cultivate essential critical thinking and problem solving skills required in a AA dominated World in short how will impact on the profile of the Next Generation lawyers our distinguished panelists bring expertise spanning various domains in compassing law education psychology behavioral design and legal Ops espera fero good morning how are you H she's the dean of the faculty of law business and political science at the cardal erera University Marissa Mendes is a psychotherapist an expert in the emotional well-being within the legal market and professor of marketing business development and social responsibility at El business school and lastly Jose Maria DEA is a legal operations consultant is a senior consultant and La um he has a degree in law by ponia univers catholica of Peru and LM by Colombia law school and he has a very International view of the profession should we begin esperansa the most recent challenge for universities and law school has been to decide what actions they are going to take regarding the use of generative AI in CL classes so have decided to forbid its use so others are trying to incorporate it into their curricula what is your opinion on this thank you um well in my opinion it's pointless to forbid the use of AI it's clear that everyone is using it and therefore what is necessary is that students know how to use it its pros and cons and its risk uh it's one more tool that will need and it's important that they know how to obtain the greatest benefits from it while respecting ethical limits uh furthermore there are many arguments in favor of incorporating generative AI to the curricula on one hand students will be faced with AI in their professional lives and incorporating generative AI into the curricula can help them develop the necessary skills to succeed in a technological driving World on the other hand generative AI automates many task associated with legal research and writing uh which can save time but increase and increase productivity for students but of course uh I think we should teach that there are many cons like reliability and accuracy concerns it's well known that in its current form generative AI may not be a reliable legal tool and there are concerns about the accurate the research conducting using these tools and also the use of generative AI Rises ethical and legal questions potential uh for bias in AI algorithms the responsibility of of users in the ethical use and so on in our case in our faculty each lecturer is free to choose whether or not allow the use of AI but I'm sure no one has prohibited it and and some practical sessions it's used from a Double's perspective to make students understand the answer are not 100% reliable and for students to develop critical uh thinking skills uh for example one exercise consisted of asking chat GPT to solve the case study and the student solving in solving the case with their own arguments and detecting chat gbt's mistakes and the truth is that they are quite impressed to see how in most of the cases they know more and better than the than the tool thank you very much espa is I think it's very interesting to to to give the the students critical thinking about how to to um to to create their own opinion about the about this H this tool H HOSA ER like any technology the excessive use of generative a may have certain consequences at the cognitive level and development of young professionals can you tell us a little about the cognitive impact and how it could it could affect the career or your Professionals in medium long term certainly so there definitely would be cognitive consequence so for example we will see less engagement in critical thinking and problem solving lack of depth in reasoning and less creativity but I will say this is not new every technology has consequences so for example today teenagers can remember how they arrived to a location at a location they rely on Google Maps and if you take that away from them they really struggle and something happen similar happened for example with the calculators and in a really cool study by by ma he showed that the more extensive the use of calculators during childhood then the lower the scores were in college in mathematical classes so in the end I believe this is the price we have to pay as a society because we're trying to work H towards closing the gap between humans and computers and I understand that and I have even made my peace with that by having said that and I'm not totally happy about thaten I must confess and I I agree with a journalist Simon Lucen when he says that students will lose something profoundly important so that is intellectual Independence as a student I remember challenging the ideas of lawyers and Scholars either contemporary or before me gave me tremendous joy and it acted sort of as a fuel to keep me going to as a feel to my education and to my work the thing is that humans don't really receive the same spark or the same motivation the same spark of energy If the product is provided by AI we're wired to perceive value in terms of how much work we're investing in order to produce something this is called something called the the Ikea effect so just like an Ikea table the one who builds it sees the furniture as really beautiful while the visitors we didn't build it might detect crooked balls or misalign wood pieces so in some I would say J fi chpd bar so on is like a highspeed train it gets you to your destination super super fast but you miss out on the scenic route and local flavors you'd experience on a slower more deliberate Journey thank you um josa Marissa uh the use of generative AI H makes content creation easier some say that the results are mediocre because llms are configured to look for the common denim Mator avoiding the the extreme of or innovating s of things they say that if we accept content writing by AI we will be embracing mediocrity what do you think about this H how do you think AI generate content impacts lawyers reputation and brand I know is a is a a quite complicate question yes I was just telling you that there are many many questions in one H it's a complex question but I think that we all agree I mean that I is here as many other Technologies as was saying to make a part of our Lives part of our work easier quicker H and even more efficient okay but the criticism is right I mean lawyers need to be H gentle while using that to make sure it doesn't not only affect their reputation of the brand but also the quality of the product that delivering so I think there many many things here and I think we should warm students about it and even when we are asking them to do some work ER it's not only about telling chat GPT to do it I mean there's many things that they have to do before so to ensure that is H that the final product is the product that represents the quality of the service we are offering so in this sense I will ER emphasize for many things first a human oversight I think we and I'm linking this to universities but it's the same because I think this is like the the obviously is the is the playground of flow firms so first human oversights they need to be aware that in order to keep this brand in order to keep the quality of the product they have to oversight before during and after the H participation of artificial intelligence no I see it as a co-pilot so you don't get a co-pilot driving your car like I you're a co-pilot and I will need you for this for this and for that and if you're not doing your work I will tell you hey help me and again at the end I I think it's a good opportunity to reevaluate how did it work secondly H something that we seen in the past the complexity of the matters again Bo play a high a complex work and that kind of work in the medium H so dependent of the complexity of the work we need to determine to agree to really oversight when I is used in order to to make sure that things are happening definitely something that just said originality creativity I mean IE and any technology won't be for now able to replace the way we think and things that happen without any I don't know uh some line of thought that we could prevent at the begin okay and in order to get that we need uh lawyers we need our students we need the teams to be aware of their emotions be aware of their levels of stress only when your level of stress are tolerable then you can create something original you can apply the best of H critical thinking so yes definitely it's it's an issue and it's something that we as professors need to start warning our students from the very first day they get into our uh rooms into our classrooms I don't see you very optimistic on the use of AI but I think probably they can free up time to concentrate or or to to decrease the stress level and and to concentrate in complex on to solve um complex problems no that I think that could be something good from from this uh technology um esperansa so relating relating with h with that um what uh it has been discussed for years whether lawyers should learn programming code or not looking at what is happening with llms and right now how does that discussion change today do lawyers really learn how to write code what is your opinion on that um although I don't believe that lawyers need to to learn coding or programming it's necessary for them to know and understand the technology behind new technological Advance because of their legal implications uh it's known the use of of llms in the legal field has been transforming legal research and analyzis they can assist lawyers in drafting documents and brief researching and analyzing case law or even studying competitors and potential clients uh it can be a useful tool for for LS always being aware that llms have significant issues related to misinformation algorithmic bias privacy and that could pose risk in the context of of legal work but I think the the emergence of llms doesn't necessarily change the the discussion around whether lawyers should learn programming code I think what is necessary is that juries and CTO must learn to work together the former must know what they can ask to the engineers and they must interpret the request of the of the jurist um this is the for instance in the workshop I um we made in in the University we are trying to the students the students getting to know and learning to use noncode tools for example for the automation of contract I don't think it's it's a need for lawyers what is your opinion on that well I totally agree with espan and actually quite refreshing to to hear that from from our University representative I really don't think lawyers need learn how need to learn how to code I even thought so before CH GPT when we we were discussing as ASA said low code and no code tools and now it is even more clear to me learning to code has a high high high opportunity cost so and besides programmers right now are at a huge risks of being displaced even openi and the company of chpd is considering replacing some of their programmers with AI so I completely understand when that lawyers that already learned how to code may feel it's it is a critical skill okay do do you think in the United States uh because you know very well uh this country do you think there is any any kind of uh Trend that teaching code to the lawyers yeah definitely there's a lot of interdisciplinarity in the states um and also I believe in American Education when you compare it especially with Latin American education is better pref prepared for the future because of the Socratic method so the Socratic method teaches students to be like performing critical thinking and that's something that is going to be really valued in the future I think that I think is this is a critical point not to teach not just knowledge and to teaching competences and and skills and I think this is something that is very aligned with the with the technology no you need to to develop the the criteria the thinking the critical thinking of of the of the students um Marissa as an expert in in emotional well-being H in the legal Market you are in direct contact with the effective reaction of lawyers can you tell us a little about what they uh witnessing do you notice any difference between the reactions of Partners Associates as an interns students and how everyone is facing if there is any difference I think yes um the challenges of adapting the generative AI well I what I'm witnessing is that ER I is definitely making an impact but it varies from person to person not really uh linked to their job position so I came across students Associates or Partners who are really willing to embrace it and see it as a high opportunity to focus on only meaningful work and can even ER for see opportunities of including a ie in in their work and in their future projects but on the other hand I also come across students Associates and partners who are extremely concerned of the impact that they may have in their present or in the future work so for me the answer is much more about dealing with ER something new completely new something that is unpredictable something with uncertainty and these two factors ER directly um affects Stress Management and so uh some people will become overwhelmed some people come really seen that opportunity and in the middle we have different reactions and again if we take these two uh universities no h I think that this is the opportunity to finally incorporate in the curricula everything regarding health and performance I mean uh we at I we have this program shell skills for the health and effective lawyers that we been I will be I I've been the teacher for years and and I can see I mean the higher the challenge is the more important that ER taking H concern and taking care of our health is because only there as I was saying before only when we are really feeling suff ly stable what I say walking even on an uneven ground is when you can um first evaluate this as a threat or of a challenge we humans do that when anything brand new comes to us surprise and curiosity are there but it can become it can be Swift with fear immediately because of two different evaluations we do first how big this threat is and if it's beyond our capabilities the second evaluation which is okay which resources I do have that I'm going to use to face this situation H will not be in place so I think that it's an opportunity not only for universities also for low firms in house departments really helping to this me that to to this Min I'm saying it right to to minor eyes to make it uh more adaptable to be more adaptive to to these changes by helping people to be to have the knowledge to have the skills even to to experiment IE and to count on different resources to do and to deal with that fear so I think that would be my answer this question don't you think and it's a question for for for all of you don't you think that probably um the use of technology is making U the law firms evolve to a liquid structures instead of very hierarchical structures because the the technical skills H the AI skills um are in in the young people no and it's very difficult to manage a team where where the young people is who has the the the skills and probably that has that will have an impact to to change this pyramide model to more liquid what what is your opinion on that josea yeah I'm glad to take that so I agree with you totally so it's it is the the young professionals who have the the knowledge right now the technology knowledge and we're not just saying that when you look at the data for example from open AI it actually shows you that J Junior professionals are the ones who are using for example chat GPT more it could be for many reasons senior professionals are busier maybe some of them don't believe it will affect their careers or simply because some of them I think have a technological Gap the the question for Meena is will they hire try to hire somebody to automate these tasks or will they have confidence in young professionals and try to get them develop products for the lo I think my my answer lies on the second one and it's also cheaper in my opinion just getting a an intern a young professional getting him or her on board on the uh in the law firm and equ keeping them with the right skills I believe for that that young professionals could find a lot of opportunities and at the same same time some of them will be able to become entrepreneurs and have different career paths yeah it's true that the legal ecosystem is becoming more Rich no with more of your opportunities in the market but we need to train our young people to to make profit of this newort Unity esperansa it has been um how how does the success of Love students impact the design of University curricul curricula sorry do are you thinking in the future professionals uh what skills are going to be reinforced and what new subjects are going to be taught and and and it's true what skills are no longer going to be as important as where as they were five years ago no is a new there is a movement no according to the profession what's going on in the in the profession I think to ensure that students are well prepared for their future careers uh we the universities may uh reinforce the skills for for academic success not only succeed in law schools but afterwards in the B exam and in the legal future practice and this suting include programs and courses that help students to develop the critical thinking problem solving and research skills um to reach the gap between theory and practice universities may offer more opportunities to students to gain practical experience through placements or clinics or simulations and they should develop the skills needed for for real world in legal work and obviously you have all said H we need to emphasize the importance of technology and the so-called 21st century skills in their in their curricula they can include teaching students how to use legal research tools analyze data and communicate effectively in a digital environment um in terms of the skills that are no longer as important as they were five years ago uh we can include manual legal research for instance with the availability of online legal research the ability to conduct manual legal research may be less important that it was in the past and also with traditional legal writing of course legal writing skills are very important but the rise of technology and the use of AI in legal research and writing may require students to adapt their writing styles to be more concise and more and persuasive in a digital environment and uh finally we might think that also that memorization is also no longer important but at least in Spain as long as access to public professions Jes notaries registers and so on are based on a civil services exam system based on learning Topics by heart we will have to continue teaching our students how to memorize uh not withstanding the fact that the basics of law must continue to be learned in the classroom what can be done is to enrich you have said also before H to enrich the curriculum with the most Innovative subjects related to the intersection between law and and technology for instance uh at my University uh we have been doing for this is the third year uh introducing more specific sessions related to new technologies in the so called traditional subjects we look at topics such as digital personality the criminal liability of robots deep fakes digital inance and and many more what about Roman law we keep with Roman law I think it's a good basis well um Marissa um one of the areas which the use of AI is increasingly being used uh in Psych iCal therapy and one hand chatbot are supposed to help close the gap in access to the Mental Health Resources while on the other is criticized that they do not provide the same level of service as human therapist with interns and Junior Associates anxious about their future work do you see a mental health crisis brewing in the legal profession in in in the in the coming years well H good question because I think it's something that is not only affecting the legal profession I think it's something that we're dealing with and especially when we look at the youngers and Childs and and teenagers so definitely things are changing and it's not only I it's also we're coming from Co we're coming from different crisis I mean we are having this shift in our lives they year after year so but definitely there's something that we cannot miss that the legal profession is really demanding it's really demanding because uh the long working hours because of the um the CLI impact that the different issues have on them ER all the pressure in Billing hours not to say the delay in courts so definitely something that we cannot miss and I mean I'm repeating myself I been saying this for many years I mean we cannot wait till someone collapse H before providing that person at that environment with the normal natural resources to deal with this so definitely is something that we need to be aware of er something that we can do from a school even even Secondary School H helping people to deal better with stress identifying the signs in their body something that I really ER get shocked I mean when I get H people that saying oh no I've been having this reaction on my body for 20 years now so it's we we need to help people to be connected with their body to be connected with reality and it's something that we need to address uh at low firms and yes all the chat box uh all the all the all the tools that we're getting in Psychotherapy help us to close the gap because it's easier to H identify the symptoms is easier H to get resources to deal with a specific uh symptoms but uh but it's something that we need to address definitely yes um specific tools and specific sta for specific needs in the legal industry do you think the AI um will in increase the level of an anxious in the in the young people do you think we have to include in the universities um something to to help them to to face the challenges of of this new era in in the legal sector I mean when something is uncertain when we something is we feel we cannot have control over it it definitely get us answers so the best way is to to I mean to really uh H be able to touch be able to experiment what is that be H receive information about the benefits the limitations the risk I mean the most informed uh we are with everything I'm just going back to co I mean at the beginning we were really stressed I remember myself doing crazy things cleaning everything and getting a scared by going out to the street but while I was getting more information about uh when I should be focusing my ER worries where I should get more um quiet and and mace so it's it's definitely the same it's definitely the same and going back to what asantha was saying about reviewing the their curricula I think we need to review the curriculum we need to really make a a a a real approach to review what needs to be there what need to be replaced and what need to be teach or Focus from a different perspective I mean because otherwise we're keeping sorry keeping our people where they're going out the the universities without the relevant information and relevant resources and that makes them weak and that would make them anxious and vulnerable probably we need to adapt the curricula to the to the profession no I think it's it's very it's quite different to become a lawyer to be a professional in the legal sector now and that means to include H technology of course but probably some some um topics regarding mental health no or to to help them to to be strong in front of this uncertain world that they are facing every day so josea I think one one of the most of young professionals learn when when they get in in a in a law firm is to investigate no how does generative AI impact this skill in today day in day-to-day activities of interns and juniors Associates do you think you told us before that that is something that do you think that they should they should uh do but what is your opinion that that would generate a new career path for young people when they start in a laow firm it's a really good question I believe um Mata versus aanka already showed us that chat GPT is not a good tool when factual accuracy is required but but that doesn't mean it won't improve especially I believe when law firms start building their own models which some of them have already done and in the near future I believe using tools like CH GPT will become the standard even for conducting research to investigate so this as espa said before means that the market won't place so much value in some of the compet competencies or skills such as concept memorization or the ability to write a b basic essay what I believe will be most critical is knowing how how to prime the system to craft a good prompt and to polish it yeah H to connect CH GPD to other systems through plugins or apis so for example if you're not using box scrip right now your CH GPD is still stuck in September 20 21 so that's not good and know how to train chats and lastly and most importantly there will be a huge huge demand for professionals that are able to discern between good information from bad information so digital literacy and I believe that is something that universities could could work on as well yeah that's true in fact now Harvey which is a is based on gener AI is a specific and it was born in for the legal sector no and one of the key points is they have a very structured document from a low firm and I think this is something that in my opinion will change the way that we are going to deliver um legal services from now on well um just my my last question we have to talk about that no in terms of hiring is a question for all of you you probably we start with espa do you think that the highend of young people will decrease but at the same time there are new um opportunities are arising no we will see entrepreneurs in the legal sector and creating a new type of models well I don't think that young lawyers will no longer be recruited but the task they will perform or the roles they will occupy may be different instead of doing minial task as before they will be working on supervising the work of automation tools or training new algorithm so they will have to be familiar with them right out the of the University H in addition knowledge of legal Tech tools and the easiness with which young people move in these digital environments as opposed to senior lawyers most senior lawyers means that these young people continue to be indispensable I think in terms of recruitment in law films H if hiring is decreasing I think it may be due to reasons other than technology for example uh because the legal profession is experiencing um a lack of job satisfaction for the practitioners while working in low films Marisa had said that maybe du to the systemic strains in the in the legal profession um and it's true that we may see more entrepreneurs in the the legal sector with new types of of models maybe due to several factors um young lawyers May seek the path of Entrepreneurship because they want to start their own businesses where they can align their work with their personal values or because they are looking for social conscious entrepreneurship fors and companies aligned with purpose driv Mission or only because the advancement in legal Tech and legal design allow entrepreneurs to innovate and create new models that better Ser client needs I think you Spa Marissa what's your opinion on that well I see students with an increased interest to a in entrepreneurship definitely and is is easier and than before and but I think it will be a m i mean I will be sad if we will be repeating mistakes from the past when the ABS and the lpos appear and er low firms were not uh quick enough to retain the talent to keep the talent and to provide an environment where they can um promote entrepreneurship so I think that's that would be something very interesting especially H because instead of doing lots of different small things and growing just doing things in a in a really irrelevant way so I would like to see that but I don't know what's going to happen because I think that will mean a very strategic approach from the current leaders and being aware definitely of the change that is this is and the opportunities this is offering and in the other hand I would love to see a an increase in the collaboration between low Firs inh house departments and universities I mean something is not just I prepare them that yours but hi we need to refresh this and it's more costly it's more expensive it will take more time if I do it by myself let's do something let's create this collaborative and environment so I don't know if this what's going to happen but it's what I would like to happen and to learn from previous mistakes you mentioned something very interesting because um sometimes the the the schools the law schools are generating um people for law firms but now there is a a plenty of New Opportunities and legal departments and say house lawyers but also in legal text editorials and that many other opportunities in in terms of startups that we have to train too for for those new professions in in the legal sector and I think this is a a challenge for universities of course and josa what's your opinion on that um I said it before I think like quite the contrary J professionals will have a strong position in the market and especially just to add on that the ones who have a digital literacy so just to reflect like one minute in that to show how important digal literacy is let's remember what happened with the whole fake news movement and how our parents and grandparents um believed everything that they were they were they were seeing on WhatsApp groups and believed all all those fake news something like that will happen with a generative AI we are wired as human beings to believe everything that a rebel tells us there's there's a lot of research on that for example there's one from lur who who is a really cool study where he programmed a calculator to lie actually lie and give false results to students and only 21% of students showed some suspicion about the LI so we're wired to believe the lies so the young professionals that are actually capable of discerning good AI information from B AI information we have a very very strong position in the market okay thank you very much we are finalizing our round table but before we finish please mention just only two key skills knowledge or competences that um the according to the EA um generative um the universities need to add to the curriculum just two we start with um espera I would say the first one would be that students they should be training legal Tech and Tech of law tech for Law and also they need to develop soft skills we we have talked about that such communication collaboration creating work life balance and emotional intelligence this be will be critical in building relationship with client colleagues and another stakeholders thank you Mar turn okay going to my domain so I will go for incorporating the signs of well-being for two things ER increase capabilities and coping strategies to deal with uncertainty and to be able to embrace it instead of running away from that and secondly to ER include curricul as well emotional intelligence to increase our levels of tolerance to emotions and to um threats and to all the different things that happen in life and that will help ER lawyers to have a more H creativity approach H to be to even to increase their critical thinking by incorporating uh all the things that happen when someone faces a piece of work from being quiet and confident and sufficiently er confident of their capabilities to do it thank you HOSA I will just keep it to one information literacy workshops like helping students managing all this information overload and help them differentiate between bad information and good information that is critical for me josea thank you is a is a very great point so in fact you are mentioning both no um just um to have tools to manage the AI the generative Ai and also the emotional part of the of the of um assuming this technology um thank you very much for for your time it has been very very interesting and thank you very much for for the audience for your attention and of course thank you to um to the U Global H legal techhub for organizing such uh roundtables that is I think is very good to reflect and debate about the future of the legal profession thank you so much have a nice [Music] [Laughter] [Music] day [Music]