Sunlight on Shadow AI: When Security Learns to Tinker—Rob T. Lee on AI Risk

Secure your AI experiments with Zapier. Try it now! 👉 https://bit.ly/3WsVPzp Most security playbooks weren’t built for an era where AI moves faster than policy. Rob T. Lee says the default answer of “no” is creating a far bigger problem: shadow AI - widespread, unsanctioned usage that quietly exposes organizations to risk. Rob T. Lee - Chief of Research & Chief AI Officer at the SANS Institute - joins Wade to unpack pragmatic ways leaders can move forward without breaking things. From the “tinker/hacker” mindset that helps teams learn, to treating security like a lifeguard (not a chokehold), Rob lays out the short, repeatable moves that actually get enterprises experimenting safely: enable small experiments, create accountability partners (not mythical “AI champions”), red-team your integrations, and make governance part of the daily routine. In this episode, we unpack: 🛡️ The Shadow AI Crisis: Why current restrictive policies are driving employees to use unsanctioned, risky tools. 🏊 The Lifeguard Model: How to flip your policy toward a cautious "yes" to act as a protector rather than a jailer. 🔧 The Tinkerer’s Mindset: Why leaders need to go back to "hacking" on technology to truly understand how to secure it. 📋 AI Governance Blind Spots: Identifying gaps in agentic policies and vendor checks. 🚀 The SANS Secure AI Blueprint: A look at the framework used to align strategy, governance, and operations. Guest: Rob T. Lee, Chief of Research & Chief AI Officer, SANS Institute If you liked this, subscribe for more episodes of Agents of Scale - practical conversations about how companies adapt, evolve, and build for what’s next. Try Zapier for yourself! https://bit.ly/4hWQES5 Subscribe | Leave a review | Share with a friend who’s building with AI. ************************ Agents of Scale is a show about real stories of AI transformation. Hosted by Zapier CEO Wade Foster, each episode features a candid conversation with a C-suite leader who’s scaling AI ac