Founding Stories: Sandbox VR

Key Takeaways

[Music] hi this is Frank Chen welcome to the 1/16 z youtube channel in this episode which is part two of a two-part series that we created on sandbox VR what we're gonna do is talk to the entrepreneurs Steve Zhao and Sikhi Chen about the founding story of their company I've long been a fan of the NPR podcast how I built this with guy Roz and I've always secretly wanted to do an episode just like it and so here it is we're gonna go to the founding story of sandbox VR who you'll see in conversation with the entrepreneurs is a 16z general partner Andrew Chen who led the investment and is now a board member of the company so enjoy this look into the founding story of sandbox VR after they finish up the founding story they're gonna have a conversation about the future of virtual reality and storytelling which I think you'll really enjoy because as we create a new media we're gonna create all kinds of new genre and conventions for stela storytelling and I think you'll really enjoy that part of the conversation as well so let's drop right into the founding story of sandbox VR Andrew talking to Steve and Sikhi and the first thing they're gonna discuss is how the two of them were inspired by the way Hollywood grew up I know one of the early things that we talked about you know in in all this was was it kind of separate from the deck was actually the motion picture Hollywood kind of analogy do you guys want to say a little bit about that and and you know what what what aspect of that kind of inspires you well I mean I think that's where the network effects came from right this idea of looking back 100 years you have Nickelodeon starting up and it was very bombed and pop and over time yes not the MTV channel with the yeah time to die movies and over time you develop a studio system and that became fertile he integrated the studio started buying up the actual cinemas and then all of a sudden you know you have the Golden Age Hollywood and then in 1948 that became illegal in America through Paramount versus the United States they broke up with monopolies you're and so like you know looking at what we're trying to do is like you can see a very similar path and so you mentioned that we want to do this virtual integration of stuff and it's like I think we did it because all actually to be clear Steve did it because Steve had to write like there's no technology so we have a building mythology there's no stores to place the signal ology so you have to build a store and there's no content you had to build the content but over time as you get scale all of that changes right well I and I think it's fascinating the idea that you know as an industry what we sort of seem to want to do with VR was basically invent the technology and then immediately bring it home right into homes right and that's certainly not what happened in the in in the you know in the film industry because there was literally decades of content creation you know just in theaters before we actually got you know movies actually playing on on people's TVs right so I think that's like a really interesting you know you know that metaphor as well so yeah what other you know what other you know during your fundraising process on this I'm curious what other objections did you hear from people what are what were other kind of risk points that people kind of pointed out you know along the way so we started fundraising in Hong Kong went to China Japan before we went to Serkan Valley and one of the biggest challenges was they couldn't or it was a disconnect of what they envision what we had versus what we actually had right we didn't have a store in Japan so they didn't a what they weren't able to actually try out you know their perception of VR was what they've seen in home and and it's something that we've noticed is because once we take him to our location and we see the expression on the face and even people would actually tell us like I can't believe that's possible yeah that was my experience I mean I joined last year because I be I who was early bastard company and Steve something launched it I was I don't care about any of it right and I tried it right I think that's the big difference and maybe we can get like really detailed into the differences specifically right so because you're using you know oculus in some places using HTC vive so like what what what's actually different about the experience so you go to a location yes right and you go usually with how many people up to six up to six people okay and then and then talk to us about just like the product like before you and get into the into the you know into the games into the experience you know what what is the what is the experience kind of you know before that yeah so you check it our staff welcomes you they start gearing you up with these markers and so all of us already there's a sense of oh this is different and I I didn't know what I was coming into so I was like oh this is interesting I'm wearing these markers I'm not sure we're there for you walk into a room and the first impression of room is like this looks like a CGI motion capture studio my guess is a complete green-screen so that was exciting then you hear you get geared up with half the best and a computer and then a headset and then the experience gets turned on right and so you go from seeing nothing to you and all your friends they're there but virtually as someone different or a narrative this training room case like a empty blue Abbott I'm and and now it's that's that's the place where everyone starts screaming and they're that you're high-fiving people you're shaking their hands like it's like this is crazy and I think well because it's it's super interesting that you know the the thing I remember the first time I used it was that first when you get all the gear up and running you like kind of look pretty badass right like you have like this vest like it's all black like you actually kind of feel pretty badass you see kind of one of the walls there's a bunch of you know different guns and different props and it kind of looks like that scene in the matrix where you you know where they like hit the button you know and like all the guns come out and it's just like a wall of you know sort of like looks reminiscent you're just like well that's like pretty cool that's sure walking into the room and see how the rack full of equipment was a magic moment as well right right and then and then and then you're saying like so clarify like what is it what does it mean that you high-five like in the game and they're like what what do you mean by that exactly I mean you know I can see you with your body try correctly and we high-five each other in the VR game like we physically always like yeah right are like doing that and it actually works and so if you're used to home er where you can't touch anything or it's all virtual that is a for me was a mind-blowing moment like Wow okay so now you know my imagination at the time was running is like okay this I I can now become anything right and I think for me when I thought about the differences in terms of creative possibilities is like if you think of a content and a home VR the focus is around where you get to be that's sort of this story and this world around you but because of the limitations of hardware an experience not enough of it was about who you get to be right and I think that more than anything is like a big differentiator for a content it's like that's it's an embodiment and social so going back to the investor reactions - you know that's kind of during your seed round kind of before before I am juicing Horowitz and also during during your pitch like what were some of the other kind of points of feedback you know that you got from people that you know well we started really early so I guess it's kind like a founding story yeah in a sense so I started as company in Hong Kong because I was building my last company in Hong Kong and VR came about you know we were all very excited so we wanted to work in VR but we approached it differently as game developers it was like what was it and experience that we wanted to create and we saw consumer VR and we thought there was something about it that didn't feel right right in VR we wanted to be essentially the holodeck or getting plugged in and matrix so I went to my team and we thought hey can we build something like that and then what would it take to build something like that and then we realized you need a retail space you need your own content you need the technology and we raised about half a million in the beginning and we thought well the void has about much more than that multiples of that I think is a worthwhile bet yeah I put in a thousand of that so we had a lot of help from CGS well in the beginning a thousand dollars of help from sticky rice right yeah so that less of us quite a while so that was a bet up at the same time at the Masters friends who basically pitched in they felt that well is early we should build a title as well so that's what we did we built a title and we also worked on the holodeck so my thinking was well you know about its kind of built the title a consumer title for the oculus and for us team right right just for for in-home VR but in homra York okay so this is sort of like a to two separate to separate that's one was just let's just try to do something for any home VR also this sort of full-stack strategy that's right as well right so we're thinking that by the time that we're done with the title the revenue that we'll be making from the title would hopefully break even on just that title and we can hedge everything on to the holodeck but that was Christmas of 2016 and we launched it in based on steam data we were at the top 20% selling game but we lost over 90 percent on that tile you know there were just not enough users playing it and you know we were doing a very harsh reality that you know company what you're gonna run out of money and it was gonna run our money very soon so what we did going back to you questions was we needed to raise a seat around as soon as possible so at a time we had the core technology where friends could actually high-five each other right multiple users it was really cool and then we did you say a little bit about so the and the team right at that point was based in Hong Kong so how many folks were on the team there were six people including me right okay so we had one engineer that just focused on building the holodeck two engineers that built the content yeah and then one artist and another individual in me so you know we had the investor came in to try out the demo and they were playing around with it they're like this is the beginning of 2017 when VR was starting to not be as hot right and they're looking at what we're trying to do and it is a very big thing to both have a physical store your own content and you know to flesh out the technology so we couldn't get investors interested we talked to many of them and they wouldn't even write back I guess it would they just couldn't really think this would be a viable business so what I did at that point was we had one month of runway and I sat down with my team and I told them look guys this company's gonna be gone in a month and I think it's a shame because I believed that the holodeck should exist it's just unfortunate that it won't be us and someone else would be able to solve it so at that time I still have a nest egg saved up working at blue tea for the last ten years and I actually told the team I can invest everything into this and by the way I I ran it by my friends and my family and and I was like Steve don't be stupid you know just get a normal job don't use all your money to this company again yeah that was me yo yeah I told him that so there's a lot you know two very logical very logic oh it was a really risky bet but I didn't feel like giving up at that time I felt like we should have one more shot right right so and just to be clear so this was this was your basically life savings that you had accumulated over the course of your previous you know game studio company that's what and so this would have like this would have been like this is like a real bad for you yeah it is real bad is real bad for me I felt like it was also a real bet for my team as well because they came into the company where they reduce the salary by half and then half and it's just stuck on so so we sat down it was very real you know we were very discouraged but I say here we can do six more months but you know back then we want to just just build a demo in six months and I told him we don't have that luxury anymore right we can't convince investors we must convince the market so we need to get to market by six months and I told them look in order for this to work we all must say yes to this so I remember that day we all sat down and each of us raised our hand in our hand and we said okay six months let's make this happen so that was pretty much the foundation of how this actually became an actual product so we worked pretty much non-stop for you know seven seven days a week and we built a product in about four months and we opened in late June and at that time we found a location which you know we needed someplace that was relatively cheap in rent so we found this high-rise in Hong Kong where there's absolutely no foot traffic in fact it was in a high-rise where people don't want to be seen there's a lot of you know membership clubs there so it was a great space it was cheap so we located on a 16th floor and we pretty much just waited you know we had people came in and played we have you know we have some news agency that talked about us but what happened was over time people started you know sharing our product and then one of the social media channel got the news picked up and then everyone starts sharing it and if people started booking I remember one afternoon the phone wouldn't stop ringing for four hours straight right and then that's what we thought maybe we can actually make this work right so that was just the beginning of the story awesome okay it makes me think even the green room right for for all of us that have gone to like Museum of ice cream you know where you go in and you're just like it's just bright colors and you're just taking photos you know whatever I've been to you know what one of the sandbox VR you know locations people start taking selfies from like almost the very beginning right because it's basically like as soon as they can they're like oh man I like look cool I have these like you know all this gear on I'm in this like green room it has this sort of like otherworldly feel you know from from you know basically the first minute that's right and and and then obviously as you were saying it like you're able to generate you know some of the the in-game footage as well which is really interesting but I wouldn't even downplay the fact that like people just start doing it you know by themselves like you know put pretty much right away what did you call it uh-huh rest of Starbucks oh if it's a store design yeah well that's where we want to go right but I think yeah I don't think that's what we have at least that certainly wasn't a first store right the first one was very rundown shabby Starbucks yeah absolutely but I think you know certainly like the green screen the green room is kind of a stroke of genius right it you come in and it all of these memories associations of every time you see Benedict Cumberbatch who pretend to be a dragon Rylander filming in this stage or when they're forming award rings all this behind-the-scenes stuff you're like oh wow now I'm one of them so it already puts you in that mood and then once the experience starts yeah it was a good setup it makes you feel like a star right yeah it does you know that's kind of what you're saying that's right that's great and then and then and talk to us about the seed round so you know in the seed round you raised it you know with with the entire team in Hong Kong you know kind of really early you know what was the reaction there and I know in Asia there's a little there's some precedent because there are a lot of kind of VR arcades there's a lot of kind of like location-based entertainment already you know kind of happening so you know how much did that play into it and like talk to us about sort of the the group of investors that you were trying to put together for the zebra yeah absolutely so when we first started to start pitching with investors now that we have traction in the stores their first question was so what is your view and how is it different from all the other videos I've been experiencing so it was just first well why don't you try out and play it and I think the product essentially sells itself and I remembered we Alibaba Hongkong entrepreneur's fun letter round and the leading master he told me that look I try a lot of VR I get motion sick so I don't think it's gonna be different with yours and you know I told him well if you get motion sick in our VR don't invest in us right and he came and then when he was done he's like that just felt like real life he played it through and he wanted to play again actually so I think that was the rudy core thing which is to let them try the product right right yeah because in C key in your in your case this was something where at this point you were you were at post mates yep actually why don't you say a little bit about what you were doing at post mates and kind of hearing about the idea yourself and you know you were initially an investor so yeah let's talk about all that yeah you know we've go back to the founding of it Steve described it as sort of escape rinses with the VR and I told him that it's done this pitch I've ever heard like I don't I don't get it suited anyway still did it anyway I don't know like yeah there's so many dumb ideas that Steve had it turns out to be not dumb yeah so I was up hosts mates when this thing was launched he calls me and I thought all right I I didn't know the company was going anywhere and he says hey we're sold out for next 6 months brilliant ok cool still didn't care right cuz in my head in my in my mind at the time when I heard that it was like you do a VR thing in Hong Kong a million people high-density maybe we're gonna try it just cuz we are and so yeah an August year-and-a-half ago right went to Hong Kong charted myself and that's the thing that convinced me like you know over and over again we know that this doesn't make sense unless you try it and you get it it none of this makes sense unless you try it and what I experienced was yeah this is like the first version of the thing I've been dreaming about since I was in high school which is the holodeck and to have done it with six people like in Hong Kong with no money and have it be a working business and have a triple a piece of content of 30 minutes long does super high quality done in like less than half a year like you know honestly you give me millions of dollars and give me two years and there's no way what about that so it's like almost yeah the other thing was like okay this team isn't afraid to do crazy things and it's efficient in a way that like you just use it's not possible to do here right and then a funny side part of the story is that you and I talked about C drom that's right we know is that at the time yeah right yeah uh who is you were with someone right you're working with someone yes yeah so my friends I love your mama that's right yes we're looking at companies together and I was like okay C key all right I haven't met the CEO I haven't had the experience you're excited about it right but I'm kind of like how can I possibly invest in something without seeing it I don't believe me right yeah which is great right I mean you know it's it's it to be involved you know a few years later from that so so so I think I remember at that point you know I had also known of some of the other folks that we're in the industry other location-based players you know wasn't clear like okay you know as an angel investor at the time you know do you invest in the the big guys that you know maybe had raised a bunch of money and this and that or you know is this the team and by the way they're also in Asia and like are they gonna do anything in the US how how easily will these ideas translate into the US and so I passed on the you know on the seed rent which is really interesting yeah you know place to start the start the whole competition thanks Andrew a lot of people did I didn't I didn't have a thousand dollars laying around two of what could have used that it wasn't the easiest seed round and it wasn't the easiest say for those reasons Yeah right you have to try it and even you know for Guineans you know in our unit the story of a but you know we thought we would start in Asia because we have a location ready to go in Asia and even Asia bays investors they don't want to go to Hong Kong I guess weird they're a Singapore they're mainland but like oh yeah we have one Hong Kong and people didn't want to go right a lot of people that were dreading it but like yeah it's it was difficult right the location-based aspect of it the fact that it's so experiencial yeah right those are the things that are actually so strong about this but if you you know decide that you know you're not gonna you're not gonna worry about that that you know the the series in a you know raised and some of the feedback that you guys got along the way also so I think maybe I'll just share my experience you know on the whole thing I think one of the fascinating parts about raising the series a was you guys came into town we had dinner right what to Avery Avery great restaurant by the way she's an amazing restaurant love it and then and what happened was and then you guys got the location running and then I remember the first week that it was open it was basically like in my social media feeds like non-stop and then I think he told me like four days in that you guys had already gotten a term sheet yeah right and so yeah so just talk to us about that experience like this you know the the the investment opportunity became white-hot basically start from zero and then became white-hot immediately and so yeah like how did that work well I think it's two parts to it one part is the amount of diligence and preparation needed for series a and although pretty much mostly credit goes to C key for that in terms of how he can strategize on getting investors to group up together how he can't kind of pace out investor who goes first ruth goes in there it's just much easier with a product that you know is awesome so so that in itself is very important how we think about the deck how we think about the story like c key he he has a really good way of structuring that and the second part is just how many come to our store right and just getting it to be opened in time for the investors to be there yeah so you know we sign a trip in june we kicked off the fundraising process internally late january just in terms of preparation right so we have a coda database of I think ended up being over 400 investors and we went through everyone who has ever invested in any kind of game or VR or entertainment or media right as we want crunchbase and then we filtered out my check size who could intro us over there right stage then by geo and we you know like I believe fundraising is about supply and demand and you minimize your supply and concentrator demand in time and space so we try to do that Asia the network wasn't as good and people were willing to come so you know luckily I've been is the Bay Area for ten years right so once we have the swore up it was just outreach to a bunch of people right people started poke it was it actually we didn't actually to be quite honestly we weren't trying to saturate the social feed we just wanted people to come to people in dev sherry and then it became a little bit of a status symbol to have that have that in to share and people start like I want one of those too and then yeah you know what we pitch well as funny is like when we first started the fundraising process in the valley we met with a few investors friends you or one of them and some other people and we went through the deck the key will be friendly and it was right there are still friends but the store wasn't ready and so on that basis we were already dismissed and then of course once you try it you're like okay never mind but yeah so it was just a lot of preparation and like making sure we concentrate as many meetings as we can in a very small amount of time right awesome and and you know I think the the part of the part of this that's my story is basically you know at once you have the location up and running you had a term sheet within a couple a couple days we visited you know of one or two days after that over the weekend have you guys in on a Monday and then and in my part of the story which is really which was really fun was I was like well I have to go see all the other you know location-based entertainment products right out there and so so I booked a flight to Vegas the day that you guys had had to come in and done the formal you know presentation to us went to Vegas tried out a bunch of things and then on the flight back at the airport was like texting with you guys to set up time you know to meet up because I you know I got convinced in and I think this part was really interesting too I was convinced actually because I tried a couple different experiences and it wasn't that you know necessarily that the experiences were you know from a technology standpoint or for a Content standpoint you know those were actually even the comparison points I actually just felt like there's a lot of people trying to do something that looks more like sort of this passive experience almost like film storytelling kind of a thing and that the sandbox experience was actually the most like a game and that I'll bet on something interactive any day because that's how you get the frequency that's how you get you know in terms of all of our you know interest in everything from you know eSports and streaming and so on that you sort of need actually ultimately games DNA to get replayability and so the fact that both of you guys have you know games DNA as opposed to Hollywood DNA was actually a really part key part of the investment thesis and so and so after that you know after seeing all you know kind of a couple different other data points you know other products then you know we met up that that later that evening I think we've been up at like 9 or 10 p.m. we went to an in and out right next to SFO so the Millbrae one which was packed it was actually completely packed and we were like the weirdos with you know with a laptops out you know talking and like sketching things on napkins and we're doing spreadsheets and we're doing all this other stuff to try to get to a you know deep-tissue to try to wrap things up and we got to a conclusion and then you know kind of went from there which is which Bush is great and it's a weave in and obviously parts of that story are on the internet now and and part of the TechCrunch you know article you know about the investment I want to actually you know pivot the conversation to two you know a different aspect of this which is in many ways what you guys have done what sandbox has done is to take something that is actually kind of a kind of like a Minimum Viable Product in many ways right it's sort of like the you know I think you know we're up to three games now right but you know originally all the demos everything that you guys are doing was primarily off of Deadwood mansion which was a game that took a couple even like a couple months and you know a small amount of money you know in and and and you know as you were describing you know putting on the markers you know you you you have these like motion capture balls attached to this velcro that you're putting around your wrists and all this other stuff and that's where it is right now right but you know that and the holodeck are kind of like you know there's a there's there's a long way to go before we can get to like Star Trek holodeck for real right and so let's talk about some of the technology things that need to happen whether it's things that you know are you know within the control of the company things that are that are being a part of the ecosystem in order to get to like the highest expressiveness that you can get in in in the VR medium you know I think about into two components right one is like the sheer immersive quality of it right so you know I mentioned we went through that and you know things are just going to get better from the hardware side but then there's like the kind of technology that we can invest in and the other axis is how do we double down on what makes is different which is social so for example you know the fact that we can interact with each other and I can touch like Steve children and shaking his hand and I'll hop that work is critical to the experience right if you think about some other experiences the focuses have been on the thing what you can touch in terms of a physical prop like a table and we our belief is that you know the more interesting profit touch maybe your friend like is to you know work together and because we can capture your body we can also get a something for a body language and so if we double down on that then how do we go from body language which is like really granular to emotion right like I'm looking at you there's eye contact you've just smiled how do we communicate all of these nonverbal things inside VR right man you're wearing a headset and we don't have a camera on you we can't motion capture your entire face yet without putting an iphone so how do we make that happen and there's a lot of Technology you know like there is a deep learning component that'll make that happen and those are the areas that we wanna invest and so that when you're in that experience with your friends you can actually communicate both verbally from the audio cues but non-verbally as well we think that's gonna be big so yeah there's you know core technology and there's just social investment those are the two areas that are pretty focused on right yeah it seems like one of the big things is how do you increase the expressiveness of the media while minimizing the amount of hardware that you actually had to wear you know it's part of it right and I know that you know for instance if you want to do really accurate tracking of your posture of your fingertips of you know facial expressions right this this actually goes into this whole you know computer vision machine learning kind of set of technologies that you know again like 10 years ago there was not this level of richness in the industry you know focused on driving that yeah yeah a lot of the software right so like how do we take everything to know about you your suppose of your body the locator your fingers and what you say and translate it out to expression and so that's something we're really excited by doing right let's talk a little bit about the kinds of experiences that can be built you know so today what you have is you sort of have three games you have you have Deadwood mansion which is sort of a zombie you know your soldier inside of a you know in inside of a mansion with zombies attacking you you have you know you have a pirate-themed game you also have this now the new one amber sky which is is focused on you know you're an Android and you know you're on a space it has some really cool experience you know it's three shooters right it sort of reminds me of the era and in Hollywood which everything was like like a spaghetti western yeah you know and that was like what what everyone was he was all just John Wayne and it was sort of you know I forget that the Italian director you know we're like but like that's all he did right and and and this is you know there's one genre and then over time you know we in and move in film we've also seen you know you get the rom-com you get the you know period drama you get you know you have all these kind of new genres of different things so right now we're in you know shooters right like what are some of the other experiences that you you might imagine actually facilitating that you know might might surprise you know might surprise us in the future there's the near-term experience the centers there's a far-off right so for the near terms we are moving away from using guns actually our next one you'll be using different props that will be non shooting related so that would come out as soon as this summer so from there we're building our experiences where we think about more about embodiment and see who do you get to be and based on who you get to be what type of tools will be most native to your character and your friends right so that's how we see in terms of near-term and you're right we are looking into John rrah that extends beyond Jess you know does ami the pirate masks or things like that is we think of it just like how we used to build games what type of other mainstream experiences we feel like that can cater to a water you know range of audience so that's kind of a near term and I think about the far term as right now a group of player plays that's inside a room of six what does it mean one day to build these retail spaces where there's no walls right you're talking about perhaps dozens in the hundreds of people playing at the same time there could be immersive actors there as well so that part is very exciting because you know what we have as a product is always evolving right we think of it as what type of limits we can we you know remove in the future and from those limits that we remove whatever experiences can recreate that we think people would love right that's great yeah and I know I mean even even in the games industry itself it's like we're discovering still to this day new formats right it's like ah now all of a sudden like this battle royale format in the last you know couple years right through you know pub G and then you know now fortnight of course now it's sort of like every every every game needs to explore you know whether or not there should be a battle royale format so it sort of feels like this is incredibly incredibly early in the whole thing and you know and and again going back to the film analogy like even learning how to tell the stories you know in in in film and learning you know like the close-up shot and the shots of like you know looking up at that you know up at the sky like these are all things that haven't had to actually be invented in order to you know tell the story so it's it just feels incredibly you know early do you guys have any genres that you feel like are your own personal like favorites that you love to figure out like what is the VR you know kind of equivalent of that I guess was like just going back and riffing on what we were talking about with movies of it I mean I think we're even earlier than the westerns like I think this is a silent film era right like well we have must be real like they're fun I think I would I can honestly claim they're the most fun thing you can have but extremely low production value right and so and just like early movies were right and I think that'll increase but like we I feel like I was sort of insecure about this idea that oh we're mostly shooters and games for a long time and as they're still a little bit of that but you know I recently I've come to like believe that as you did I think our into pitches is actually an enormous advantage right because analogy to use to create a content is enormous ly important right so if your analogy is movies then it's gonna be about movies plus plus immersion story passive and you know we care about all those things but because of the nature of the medium that is interactive and we're consequence doesn't matter and agency matters you need to take all of the know-how from games which are all about that and combine that with movies and and the realization is it is a brand new medium and the analogy of games is perhaps a better starting point than just purely movies and this work has games have evolved too right if you look at Red Dead Redemption right that is much of a narrative experience as a game and I think that's the right analogy for us and that's how we think about content so you know yeah we have shooters and we're gonna have all kinds of content whether it's like eSports competitive narration narrative experiences dance experiences or even like training experiences right it's less about whether it's games or this was weak piece of content but for me it's more about this medium as a whole that feels something different then you know VR as we commonly understand it this new combination of movies and games that hasn't existed in the world and that format is what this company I think is about well I hope you enjoyed that episode and letting me channel my inner guy bras it's always fun to hear the founding story of companies and boy talk about courage putting your entire life savings into the company and then I love how Steve thought that was just a terrible idea but eventually had a conversion experience and ended up joining the company so if you liked what you saw go ahead and subscribe we've got plenty of other content planned for you and we've got a comment thread open so what inspired you what surprised you as you heard the story of sandbox VR go ahead and leave your comments and we'll see you next episode [Music]