AI That Can Prove It’s Right: Verification as the Missing Layer in AI — Carina Hong

The MAD Podcast with Matt Turck · Advanced ·🛡️ AI Safety & Ethics ·2mo ago
What if AI didn’t just sound right — but could prove it? In this episode of the MAD Podcast, Matt Turck sits down with Carina Hong, a 24-year-old former math olympiad competitor and Rhodes Scholar, and the founder/CEO of Axiom Math, to unpack how AxiomProver earned a perfect 12/12 on the Putnam 2025 and why formal verification (via Lean) may be the missing layer for reliable reasoning. Carina argues we’re entering a “math renaissance” where verified reasoning systems can tackle problems that currently take researchers months — and potentially push beyond math into verified code, hardware, and high-stakes software. They go inside the “generation + verification” loop, what it means to build AI that can be trusted, and what this approach could unlock on the road to superintelligent reasoning. Carina Hong LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/carina-hong/ X/Twitter - https://x.com/CarinaLHong Axiom Math Website - https://axiommath.ai X/Twitter - https://x.com/axiommathai Matt Turck (Managing Director) Blog - https://mattturck.com LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/turck/ X/Twitter - https://twitter.com/mattturck FirstMark Website - https://firstmark.com X/Twitter - https://twitter.com/FirstMarkCap Listen on: Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7yLATDSaFvgJG80ACcRJtq Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mad-podcast-with-matt-turck/id1686238724 00:00 Intro 01:25 Why the World Needs an AI Mathematician 02:57 Scoring 12/12 on the World's Hardest Math Test (Putnam) 04:05 The First AI to Solve Open Research Conjectures 06:59 Does AI Solve Math in "Alien" Ways? (The Move 37 Effect) 08:59 "Lean": The Programming Language of Proofs Explained 10:51 How Axiom's Approach Differs from DeepMind & OpenAI 16:06 Formal vs. Informal Reasoning (And Auto-Formalization) 17:37 The AI "Reward Hacking" Problem 20:18 Building an AI That is 100% Correct, 100% of the Time 23:23 Beyond Math: Verified Code & Hardware Verification 25:12 The Brutal Reality of Competitive M
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Chapters (12)

Intro
1:25 Why the World Needs an AI Mathematician
2:57 Scoring 12/12 on the World's Hardest Math Test (Putnam)
4:05 The First AI to Solve Open Research Conjectures
6:59 Does AI Solve Math in "Alien" Ways? (The Move 37 Effect)
8:59 "Lean": The Programming Language of Proofs Explained
10:51 How Axiom's Approach Differs from DeepMind & OpenAI
16:06 Formal vs. Informal Reasoning (And Auto-Formalization)
17:37 The AI "Reward Hacking" Problem
20:18 Building an AI That is 100% Correct, 100% of the Time
23:23 Beyond Math: Verified Code & Hardware Verification
25:12 The Brutal Reality of Competitive M
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